The four new NHC "Super Qualifiers"

[Mall]

For those of you who didn\'t get the email or read the ad in the DRF this weekend, the NTRA and the contest venues listed below announced that there will be four new \"Super Qualifiers\" later this year. In addition to 21 NHC spots, the $375K in total purse money represents, as far as I know, significantly higher purses for individual qualifier contests than ever before:

$75K at the Red Rock on 7/4-4

$100K at Mth on 8/29

$100K online for the BC on 11/6-7

$100K at Surfside on 12/26-27.

Those of you who haven\'t joined the Tour yet should note that each of these contests is restricted to Tour members only.

With the exception of Mth, which happens to be the one I\'m most interested in, there\'s nothing on the sites yet about entry fees, formats, maximums, etc. I have a call in to Jeff Lowich at Mth to find out any details I can, but what is already on the Mth site certainly seems worth mentioning: the total cost to participate will only be $600, of which $400 represents the entry fee and the remaining $200 the player\'s bankroll. The latter fact leads me to believe that it\'s probably going to be some kind of live money, or as some here call it \"real\", contest on the Mth card that day.

P.S. In response to an earlier question, contrary to popular belief the NTRA does not decide the formats of contests, which is a matter within the discretion of the tracks and other contest venues. Hence, there isn\'t any NTRA \"spin\" on the question and the viewpoint expressed in my earlier post was mine and mine alone. More specifically, assuming the hypothetical little old lady picking pretty colors isn\'t a \"beard\", I\'d say the same thing to her that I\'d say to Roger Neubauer if he ends up wininng it all next January: \"Congratulations.\"

[analizethis]

I also have a call into the Red Rocks contact and will post more information when known.

[TGJB]

Mall-- thanks for this. Meanwhile:

We are going to be developing a section of this site as a TG Contest Hall Of Fame. (No, you can\'t have your own wing. Maybe a section). I came up with 7 winners (3 NTRA, Rick\'s, mine, Roger\'s two) off the top of my head, but I would like to know about others. Anybody?

[Mall]

I\'m not trying to dodge the question, but depending on how many years back you want to go, assembling the information could be quite an undertaking, not to mention potential accuracy issues if you\'re forced to rely on mine or anyone else\'s memory.

As a starting point, how about a short questionnaire that players would fill out when, assuming you\'re planning on continuing the practice, you offer them free sheets for NHC XI?

I talked to Jeff Lowich, and while all of the details are not final, Mth\'s Super Qualifier in all likelihood will be a minimum of ten $20 WPS plays on the Mth and Sar cards, although five of the 10 races have to be Mth races. The maximum number of entries per player is two, and sign-ups will not start until mid-July.

[TGJB]

We can consider the questionaire, but that\'s a long time away. In the meantime, can you send me an email listing the ones you have won, and any won by others using our data you are absolutely sure about?

By the way, I thought Mth was a real-money contest. Guess not.

The tie thing is a pain in the butt, but I might see you at Keeneland. Are you playing FG next week?

[Rick B.]

TGJB Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The tie thing is a pain in the butt


Suggestion: get your hands on the most hideous-looking green tie you can find, preferably one of those double-wides from the 70\'s. You can always claim it\'s in honor of St. Paddy\'s Day.

Or, you could wear this one:

http://13gb.com/pictures/1943/popular/

[Mall]

Mth is a live money contest where for each entry you send them a check for $400 which covers the entry fee, and then show up on the day of the contest and purchase a $200 voucher. Using that voucher, you are required to make the minimum number of $20 bets mentioned. Note that there is no maximum on either the number of bets or the amount you can bet. Nor are there any caps.

It\'s almost exactly the same as the spring and fall contests at Lrl and Del every year, where it typically takes something in the $3k range to win and something in the $1500 range to finish third and qualify.

Won\'t be at FG but will be at Kee. Like I told the other guys--tongue in cheek of course---who weren\'t thrilled about the dress code: The contest is taking place in Kee\'s nicest and most exclusive room, and it might be the only time you can make it past the front door.

I\'ll see what I kind of list I can come up with after consulting with at least Henry and Mayer, although it\'s going to take some time.

[jefflo]

You\'re right... probably around $1,500 for third... but don\'t forget that the Monmouth contest offers 6 NHC spots.

Jeff

[imallin]

Guys, i have a question about these contests.

Besides the takeout rate being 0 percent in most of these contests, are there any other reasons to play a contest?

It seems to me that you are just going into the lions den and putting up money to face some incredibly great horseplayers and have to beat these horseplayers by betting on tracks that you (me) know nothing about.

Isn\'t it easier to just \'bet the races\'? Why go searching for the greatest players when you can just stay in your own backyard and bet against the little old lady from Pasadena in the regular, everyday parimutuel pools?

Thanks.

[P-Dub]

imallin Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Guys, i have a question about these contests.
>
> Besides the takeout rate being 0 percent in most
> of these contests, are there any other reasons to
> play a contest?
>
> Thanks.

Ego.

[Rick B.]

P-Dub Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Ego.

Surest way to LOSE is to think you are better and smarter than 600 - 700 other horseplayers.

How about: the chance to win giant sums of money for very little investment?

How about: a change from \"regular\" (stale?) betting routines?

How about: a chance to meet other horseplayers that you probably would have never met?

How about: 100 other reasons that aren\'t pithy or dismissive?

To my way of thinking, winning a handicapping contest is like making a hole-in-one: very difficult to do, great shots alone aren\'t enough (you need some luck), and it\'s very satisfying.

And even if you never nail it, there\'s nothing wrong with trying over and over.

[NoCarolinaTony]

IMallin,

There are clearly quite a few players of either sex, who are playing to stroke their EGO.

However, if you ever try it. You might find that it really does help you identify the value play in a race. I think you will find yourself handicapping races differently and hopefully better.

Miff does point out the flaws of contest play from time to time.

But TG Hall of Famers such as Mall, Jaymie, and quite a few others mentioned above can more eloquently describe the experience.

Have to admit it\'s quite a competitive group of people.

NCT

[P-Dub]

Rick B. Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> P-Dub Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Ego.
>
> Surest way to LOSE is to think you are better and
> smarter than 600 - 700 other horseplayers.

Really??  Isn\'t that the essence of competition, thinking you\'re better than those you are competing against??  If you don\'t believe that, why are you competing??


> How about: the chance to win giant sums of money
> for very little investment?

That can be done everyday at the track too.

>
> How about: a change from \"regular\" (stale?)
> betting routines?

Such as?? Don\'t these contests utilize win betting?? Last I checked, you can win bet everyday at the track.

>
> How about: a chance to meet other horseplayers
> that you probably would have never met?

You can meet them at the track or racebook too.

>
> How about: 100 other reasons that aren\'t pithy or
> dismissive?

100 other reasons??  You haven\'t mentioned 1 that is unique to contests. And yes, of those 100 reasons 1 of them is probably ego.  Nothing wrong with that. Geez, talk about sensitive.

>
> To my way of thinking, winning a handicapping
> contest is like making a hole-in-one: very
> difficult to do, great shots alone aren\'t enough
> (you need some luck), and it\'s very satisfying.
>
> And even if you never nail it, there\'s nothing
> wrong with trying over and over.

There\'s nothing wrong with contests. You don\'t have to defend yourself to me. I\'ve played contests before and enjoyed them. Just don\'t tell me that when competition and a scoreboard are involved, egos don\'t play some role.  If you think talking about ego is dismissive or pithy, then you probably haven\'t competed at many things. The best athletes in the world all have egos.

[Mall]

Most years, I only play in one or two of the Coast contests at most, so my comments are limited to the NHC and NHC qualifiers.

In a typical year, NHC qualifying contests generate more than 100,000 entries so, like most human activities, it would be literally impossible to list the wide variety of motivations people might have for entering. Thus, I feel pretty safe saying that ego gratification plays little to no role for some, is something of a factor for others, and in some cases is the only reason for participating.

Before noting some reasons which support the proposition that it makes sense to give contests a try, it seems worthwhile to examine two of imallin\'s understandable assumptions, since they seem to be widespread.

The first is the flip side of an argument which has been made here, that many of those who enter contests are \"stabbers\" who rely more on luck than skill. I\'m referring, of course, to imallin\'s statement that if you enter a contest you\'ll be competing against \"incredibly great horseplayers.\" As is so often the case, the reality is somewhere in between these extremes, and if you\'re anything like me or the many other horseplayers I\'ve introduced to contests, the conclusion you\'ll reach after you try a few is that your skills match up very well against the overwhelming majority of competitors.

Whether that turns out to be the case or not, I feel certain that one other thing you\'ll find, even if you only play in two or three contests a year, is that your cash game will improve significantly.

Imallin\'s second assumption is that if you enter contests, you\'ll be forced to play tracks you know nothing about. Not so, if you do a little homework, as the tracks which will be part of the contest are typically identified well in advance, and there are enough contests in enough areas of the country that you should be able to find more than one which will be using the tracks that you do follow. Also, as I\'ve mentioned before, there is a wide enough variety of formats that you should be able to find one or more contests which suit your handicapping strengths.

If I was limited to just one reason for giving contests a try, it would be that you might end up agreeing with my view that they are much more fun than betting races alone, which is something I also very much enjoy. However, I\'m not limited to one reason, so below are some off the top of my head differences between betting and contests:

(1) It is obviously true, as has been suggested, that betting is also a form of competition, but compared to contests, the competition is very diluted. Competition in contests is much more direct and intense.

(2) While everyone faces some strategy decisions when betting, they pale in comparison to the kind of strategy decisions you have to make in most contests.

(3) There\'s no doubt that it\'s also possible to make big scores betting, but I think the chances of making such a score on a small bankroll increase dramatically in contests. Let\'s use the new Mth contest as an example, since it started this thread. Assuming 50% of the prize pool goes to the winner, the $600 it costs to enter gives you an opportunity to win $50k on the spot plus a chance to win $500k in the NHC. It\'s theoretically possible to win the same amount with a small pk6 ticket, but in my view the chances of doing so are much less than half of the chances of accomplishing the same feat in a contest.

(4) Entering contests is the only way to get a spot in the NHC, which as anybody who\'s been there will tell you, is both a blast and the \"Super Bowl\" of handicapping. I have yet to meet the horseplayer who made it and didn\'t have a strong desire to return.

(5) The highest honor in horseracing is the Eclipse Award, and the only way a handicapper can achieve it is by winning the NHC.

(6) No doubt everyone has a circle of friends at the OTB, but for the most part, I am absolutely convinced that the camaraderie and friendships among contest players is much stronger. In fact, I feel reasonably confident saying that the social aspects of contests is the biggest motivating factor for the largest group of people.

(7) Last, and probably least since it takes time and is not always an option for those with demanding jobs or families, contests can give you the opportunity to see some parts of this great country and continent of ours that you might not otherwise see. Before I got involved with contests, my visits to the so-called fly over states were few and far between and never voluntary. I\'ve since learned that the loss all those years was mine, as there are some great people, places, and experiences out there for those who are willing to take the time to look.

[TGJB]

Mall-- you have met one player who does not have a strong desire to return to Vegas. For me it was just too much of a grind-- travel, handicap seven tracks in advance, be in the race book from first post eastern to last post pacific, then handicap seven tracks for the next day. All while keeping track of mandatory races and post times in different time zones.

HOWEVER-- I agree with everything else. And if they made that contest two tracks instead of seven, I would be right there with you. And if they made it real money or something that involves betting strategy, I would be killing myself to get there.

I would also add the following, for those who might not understand how the real money contests work. The details vary from contest to contest, but at the recent SA contest, players put up 5k, which they bet over the course of two days. There was no entry fee. The winner and second finisher got 20 and 5k, respectively. Now, there are rules (no multiple race bets, no supers) and minimums (250 per race first day, 500 second), but basically you are betting as you would anyway, except the track is kicking in significant cash prizes, plus 5 (I think) seats to the big dance, where as Mall says you can win a bunch. Betting that much is not for everybody, but if you are going to, might as well get bonuses if you do well.