Scott Lake #2

[TGJB]

Alan posted the new sheet in the wrong spot, my comments were not directed at you. You previously raised the question of worming, which is why I brought it up, but I understand that you understand that\'s not what happened here. I\'m using this horse to show the kind of thing I see fairly often, though a) not always to this extreme, ans b) only from certain guys. The conclusion is unavoidable.

[TGJB]

As it happens, Viagra is one of the drugs that may be being used-- it\'s a vasco-dilator.

[trackjohn]

Jerry:

  All of the family of Viagra-like drugs (Levitra, Viagra, etc.) are classified as a type of drug known as Vaso-dilators.  In fact it was pure serendipity that Viagra wound up as as drug to treat ED...It was originally in Phase III clinical trials to be used as a medication to treat hypertension (high blood pressure) and heart failure. The patients who were part of this clinical trial were required to fill-out a form to describe their symptoms, side-effects, etc... The drug wasn\'t that clinically effective in lowering systemic blood pressure but it didn\'t take very long for the investigators to determine it\'s unexpected \'side-benefits.

  My point is that these types of medications have powerful vasodilatory properties, which is essentially dilating/enlarging the major blood vessels, reducing both the load on the heart AND THE LUNGS with the resultant potential decrease in pulmonary pressure, particularly in cases of physical exertion.  Clearly this is more than hay, oats and water!!

  On a personal note, it is due to exactly these types of medication \'issues\' that I now wager 80% less than I did 3-4 years ago (from $4-5k/wk to less than $1k/wk).  I know that I\'m not in the \'millions of $$ per month\' category but I suspect that there are more folks out there like me who have done the same.

  My thanks for your efforts in bringing the needed attention to the equine medication problem.  Clearly the need is here, not just testing but freezing the samples for future analysis.

Trackjohn

[miff]

Sight,

What dose, in your opinion, would be needed on a horse to have the move up effect.Wouldn\'t any colt or horse get uncontrollably stud-ish if given.

NYSWB claim their new machine detects everything that there is a test for.As Jerry said, viagra et al have been mentioned as illegal move up stuff.Do you know if a test exist to detect this stuff.thanks


Mike

[sighthound]

Viagra can be readily tested for in the urine (as sildenafil)  I\'d have to check and see who is testing for it (Jerry? call Rick and ask if CA does), but Viagra has been around for quite a few years as an illegal drug in the horse world (in humans, too)

The point would be to increase bloodflow to the muscles.  Hence more oxygen, hence longer time to fatigue, hence hold their speed longer.  

No, a horse will not probably come onto the track with the obvious clue.

Dose?  No, having never used it (as it\'s illegal in horses and has no use), I don\'t know - but I could guess at what point I\'d want to start if I wanted to try it out.  It\'s been experimented with for the obvious reason in equine reproduction (without success)

Usually this stuff doesn\'t have to involve vets - one can get anything they want off internet pharmacies, especially steroid preparations (buyer beware, you may or may not be getting what you hoped for at the dose you want).

I think there\'s a mistaken impression that dopers are extra-intelligent, having extraordinary scientific or chemical prowess.  I think they are usually quite the opposite.   They are not very bright people who are more, \"Hey, Bevis, lets\' try this\". \"Eh, eh, eh, okay Butthead\".

They think if a little is good, more is better (and kill their horse on the track with milkshaking).   They think in big, broad, easy-reading fifth-grade terms about drugs are and what they can do.

Seriously - some guys will throw anything into a horse, and if it seems to not kill the horse and might be working (and no, they are not scientific about it ), they try it in their other horses.   They they pass around the lore on the backstretch.  There is probably more \"hope\" than actuality to the way alot of this stuff is used.

And if I wanted to be an overnight millionaire, all I\'d have to do is make up Doctors Special Racehorse Pills and get a testamonial or two about how great they are.   There\'s one born every second.

Sure, some guys are brighter, and some of the more intelligent vets may figure some stuff out, but that\'s not the average IMO.   Because the intelligent people easily figure out how to do stuff  ... intelligently  (good nutrition, good training, good husbandry, get into the horses mind and correct any mental issues, etc)  

While the guys - vet, trainer, etc. - who are not rocket scientists, and can\'t be bothered learning how to be good, try to take shortcuts.

[marcus]

A 7 point top and then a pair for MM after all those previous races at 3 , 4 , 5 & 6  yo ? certainly something you don\'t see everyday and probably for a good reason too , imo - even superman couldn\'t get that kind of number out of the horse ...

[jma11473]

This would be the other side of the coin, when a guy who usually does well with claims, first time in barn, etc. goes cold. I\'ve got Amoss at roughly 1 for his last 36 at Fair Grounds. Did I miss a positive test or crackdown there, is he sick or out of town, etc? Rarely see him go ice cold at that track. I\'m not saying he\'s king of the moveups, but wondering if I\'m missing something here. Thanks.

[Pic6King]

Signals Inthe Wind

Philadelphia Park
Monday, February 23, 2009
Race 3

[Rick B.]

I\'m not so sure this one fits, Pic -- 1:12 and 3/5ths is pretty ordinary 6F time for nickels at Philly, and this one had 8\'s and 9\'s to run back to if Lake got him right again, a reasonable expectation whether or not you think Lake cheats.

What I want to know is: how did the public let a \"first time Lake\" horse go off as the longest shot on the board? At least a little of this complaining about \"supertrainers\" has to be chalked up as sour grapes -- I mean, c\'mon, my fellow bettors, do you want to make money or not?