THE GREATEST HORSE IN HISTORY UP IN TIME!!!

[NoCarolinaTony]

Alm,

Can you explain what you mean by an impossible Monmouth surface? Not sure what you mean there.

NCT

[congaree1]

Here is a horse that has banked over 3 million! Enough with the ball busting. I bet their isn\'t one person on this board,that wouldn\'t want to own him.

[MO]

Big Brown acts like a horse who wants to be on the lead. Yesterday, he looked exactly like he did breaking in the Belmont. He wanted the lead in both races and was TAKEN BACK. The fact that he ground out the win yesterday without a serious effort on the track since the Preakness shows me 2 things: he was a short horse yesterday,and he was stiffed in the Belmont. He is indeed a great horse. And if I know Rick, this horse - should he stay in training - will be even better next time out.

[P-Dub]

richiebee Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
> As to the coverage by ESPN, if the Haskell had
> been run in the middle of
> football season, ESPN wouldn\'t have been within
> 100 miles of Monmouth Park
> unless there was a Rutgers home game.

You can say that about a lot of events. There\'s a reason people don\'t go up against the mighty NFL.

I don\'t think its an accident the Breeders\' Cup is run on a Saturday.

As far as the Monmouth attendance, this isn\'t unusual.  Racetracks routinely get their biggest draws on event days.  Haskell being one of them.  To assume that all of them are unaware of the participants is being harsh.  Maybe \"cynical\".

[P-Dub]

My last 2 cents also.

Whats with your fascination with this \"best in history\" stuff?  Because a couple guys on tv say it,  it ruffles your feathers that much??  Ever watch an ESPN telecast featuring baseball, football, etc...  Many fans can\'t remeber back 20 years ago about anything. Most top performers of today are talked about as the \"best ever\". Tiger is the best ever. Brady is one of the best ever. On and on.

They are currently running a \"best of\" series on ESPN about every MLB team.   Yesterday was the Cardinals.  Top 3 selected by the ESPN crew was Musial, Gibson, Brock.  You know what the fans said??  Musial. OZZIE SMITH, Gibson.  Ozzie freekin Smith. Didn\'t know they grew stuff better in St. Louis than No Cal. Don\'t take these \"greatest\" things so seriously.

Regarding the coverage, Zito should have been interviewed.  No doubt. But your negativity wears thin, and despite your stance on this particular horse, many things that you stated are ridiculous (fans paid to cheer??  cmon).

Don\'t need your number or email. I can send you a personal if need be.  But doubt it,  I listen to enough people complain at the job.

[Dana666]

I was there on Sunday. I thought he was soundly beaten turning for home. Whether or not he was 100% fit (I think he probably wasn\'t), he really dug deep and found something more, something almost other-worldly. I was more impressed with this race than any of his others. The crowd was going completely nuts! I haven\'t seen that much excitement over a horse in a long long time. As far as who he beat, the final time was very legit and speed held well, so I view his wide finish even more impressively. He didn\'t drift out that much if you watched it in person. Kent was just letting him float out there to see if he could find something more and he did. Again, I was very impressed.

[alm]

I\'ve had some horses race there...there are several important idiosyncracies...first, it can favor speed to an unholy extent, especially in routes when there is lone-speed.  As there was in this Haskell.

The real problem isn\'t just that the track surface favors speed, but it doesn\'t seem banked to the same degree as other one mile ovals and if you are tracking the speed you tend to drift in the turns...which is very very bad.

For what it is worth, in sprints, you are usually DEAD trying to circle the speed in the turn at Monmouth.  You better be close up in front and tight to the rail if you are going to run down a speed horse at this track.

[Themig]

So the horse wins and does not win by 20 and he is a bum to some on this board? He did show a little more heart today though the field was not the best. And how many of us thought he was beaten as they turned for home? I did. I was downstairs in the club house at Saratoga and the place exploded as he went on by for the win. It is OK to cheer for him, even if you dont like the rest of his crew. Some should lighten up.

[NoCarolinaTony]

Alm,

Thanks for that explanation. I was not sure if you thought there was a bias or if it was the typical tendencies that track plays to. I got a much better answer from you.

All in all, one of the posters here said it best, Gee where do I find a horse that can win 3 or 4 million dollar races. To say he is one the best of all time is still a stretch in my opinion, he has time to prove otherwise.

NC Tony

[Dudley]

Lest we forget, this is still, imo, a very sub-par crop of 3yos. Just peruse the results of the 3yo graded stakes and you will see that Big Brown can be called dominant amid mediocrity. Just imo, but to crown him with greatness is a huge stretch relative to equine history. He did put in a gritty run Sunday, but for two-lengths there\'d be another tune sung. Wired by Da Tara and nipping Coal Play? Please- that barely meets the standard of mediocre in my book. I didn\'t bet the race- no ax-grinding aforethought. Comparable to Curlin? only that they both have 4 legs! lol

[Silver Charm]

Let me set the record straight. I have nothing against Big Brown. Think he is a pretty good horse.

Question for the audience.

Who was better Barbaro, Big Brown, Point Given, Smarty Jones,War Emblem (accomplished as much as Big Brown so far), Thunder Gulch (accomplished more than Big Brown so far)?

After you have made your choice then decide does that one belong as one of the five or six best three years olds of the last 25 years?

By going back 25 years we are including Alysheba, Sunday Silence and Easy Goer, the 97 crop the 07 crop and others.

I will be more careful in what I say. Others when they label Big Brown an alltime great horse should also.

That being said it still doesn\'t means you shouldn\'t go to the track and root for or against him when he is running. Depending on which way you bet of course. Just make your own judgement and ignore the marketing campaign.

[fkach]

Silver,

My interest in the sport blossomed in the 70s. The 70s were a time when witnessing legitimate greatness was practically an annual right. IMHO, the horses you mentioned don\'t even belong in the same chapter as Secretariat, Forego, Seattle Slew, Affirmed, Alydar, Spectacular Bid, and Ruffian. In those days, a lot of Grade 1 races were like the Breeder\'s Cup is today. They were deep high quality contests with the best of multiple generations taking a shot. The typical campaign also might mean 7-10 starts. If you dominated a season, let alone 2 or 3, you were truly great.

These days the competition is so watered down because of the early retirements, shorter campaigns, long spacing between starts, opportunities to avoid top competition etc... greatness is a lot harder to prove.

I think at least some of the fan base longs to see a truly great horse have a 10 race campaign with 3-4 weeks between starts taking on all comers while spotting weight and making the competition look foolish!

IMO, it\'s that desire in part that leads to all the premature hype.

As soon as a horse puts up one or two very fast figures or demonstrates some other superior but less tangible qualities, everyone jumps on the bandwagon hoping  he\'s the answer to our prayers that it can be like the 70s again.  

I think some of the prematurely retired 3YOs probably would have gone on to greatness had they actually had a chance to prove it, but we\'ll never know.

Others, like Invasor and Ghostzapper were also clearly on their way.  

Big Brown displayed versatility, terrific speed, the ability to overcome rough trips, and a fondness for multiple surfaces - all in a very short period of time. The same was true of Barbaro. IMHO, even though neither demonstrated real greatness, it\'s not hard for me to see why people were hoping.

[jma11473]

I mean, what isn\'t overhyped these days? There are 500 channels and they need to fill the airtime. Anything that shows some sign of greatness immediately gets overhyped.

Also, as others have written, if we\'re looking to the standards of yesterday to define greatness, we\'ll never have another great horse because no one is going to go 13 for 14 on a yearlong campaign carrying heavy weights. And because we\'ve gotten so cynical due to the hype, if it ever did happen everyone would say, \"Yeah, but who did he beat?\"

[MO]

In case anyone missed it, Bailey said on the Arlington Million broadcast that BB wanted the lead in both the Haskell and the Belmont, and that Dutrow told Kent to take the lead, but Kent did not follow instructions, he did as he pleased and took BB back.

[Silver Charm]

Well this has certainly been a Soap Opera and this just adds more to it. I believe Bailey even though I am not sure how he knows Big Brown wanted the lead unless he talked to him. Which at this point considering all of the hype, people will soon be claiming he can do that also.

Found it also interesting when Jeanine Edwards interviewed Kent she asked him about Big Brown on the turf and the reply was, \"Big Brown is a turf horse who has been running on dirt\". Considering how bad the American Older Turf Horses are Big Brown might be able to win the Champion Turf Male award. Because he is not beating Curlin on dirt and this why they are so busy ducking him.

Also the ESPN Horse Racing Team has had a good year I just wish Randy Moss had not become so muted in his charge for reforms. He was really vocal on Preakness Day after Eight Belles and now not a peep. Nothing will get done if the pressure of public perception isn\'t visible and looking over the shoulders of the powers that be.

As in you better do something..........