Question for TGJB, and other "No Triple Crown" Predictors

Flighted Iron · May 22, 2008, 01:38:29 PM

Curious to know the thoughts swirling around Secreteriat after running 2 big
efforts(KD AND PREAKNESS) and whether the wise guy fig makers thought his Belmont
was faster or slower than the 2 previous races?

TGJB · May 22, 2008, 01:44:42 PM

Most of the wise guy figure makers back then were keeping their figures to themselves. Ragozin had him going back to his Derby figure, I wasn\'t making figures then. Looking at it now, I know he probably just paired up the winner and left it at that-- it was the only 2 turn race of the day, short field, the only other horse with real figures broke down.

alm · May 22, 2008, 01:45:29 PM

I have no idea about the figure he got in the Belmont, but in some ways it was by far the easiest of his TC races. Apart from Sham, the other horses were slugs just in for the show position.

Sham didn\'t break down physically during the race, but regressed huge, quitting after roughly 7 furlongs.

Secretariat had the rail most of the way. The track was superfast that day. Forego, I think, broke the track record for 1 and 1/16th earlier on the card. Other near records occured.

Secretariat just galloped around.

jbelfior · May 22, 2008, 01:49:29 PM

Looks like the only Belmont winner to have run a negative # at any time prior to winning the Belmont is AFLEET ALEX.....hmmm

Good Luck,
Joe B.

miff · May 22, 2008, 02:04:07 PM

I think Beyer did some kind of after the fact Secretariat number.Seem to recall Secs Belmont Beyer in the 120\'s?, anyone remember,I could be mistaken.

Mike

smalltimer · May 22, 2008, 02:09:17 PM

miff,
I think it was higher than that. Maybe 138?

miff · May 22, 2008, 02:10:31 PM

Al,

What era? and those things get subjective but the consistently fastest horse I ever saw, weight carried included, was Dr Fager.

Mike

Flighted Iron · May 22, 2008, 02:11:50 PM

Sounds huge,but the comparison with the 2 prior races is what I\'m after.

smalltimer · May 22, 2008, 02:12:29 PM

miff,
I stand corrected. I just googled it, Beyer gave Secretariat a 139, the highest Beyer ever. I knew it was just an insane number.

miff · May 22, 2008, 02:14:20 PM

Small,

Wow!! I do know that he was using a different scale at that time which has since changed.

Mike

fkach · May 22, 2008, 02:23:05 PM

I recall Beyer\'s early books saying that Secretariat routinely ran figures in the upper 120s and then exploded forward in the Belmont.

smalltimer · May 22, 2008, 02:24:20 PM

miff,
If you google Secretariat Beyer Numbers, you\'ll see some other huge numbers for Formal Gold, Groovy (sprint) Artax, etc. Cigar routinely ran 117 -121.
I haven\'t found Secretariat\'s Ky Derby or Preakness Beyers however.

miff · May 22, 2008, 02:26:09 PM

Jerry would have to give Secretariat app. neg -10 if he was making figs and agreed with Beyer.

Mike

Flighted Iron · May 22, 2008, 02:41:16 PM

When does easy equate to big fig or small fig? Your googling has Beyer at 139?

Flighted Iron · May 22, 2008, 02:51:39 PM

And the some..

My point being,was the Preakness a regression from the Track record setting
performance in the Derby? If this is the case then wouldn\'t Secretariat\'s line
have suggested \"Bounce\" in the Belmont?