Graveyard of Favorites

[Chuckles_the_Clown2]

I\'ll give them time to elaborate on the illness. (Though post Tampa Bay Derby just read War Pass is back on the Derby Trail.)

I\'d also point out though the 1 turn races were quickish and won by front runners, the two turn race fractions were not near as glib. Per usual, the further horses run at Tampa, the more the surface takes its toll on them. Folks may be underestimating how fast the leaders were going early in the Tampa Bay Derby. It was significantly quicker than some may think. I\'d look real close at Gentleman Jims, Pasco and Make Me Zach\'s last Gulfstream tour.

Add to the above that War Pass got nicked early, on a tough track and had to run at horses in front of him for the first time in his life and I for one don\'t find the result all that alarming considering he may be the type that wants it all his own way. The Cliff\'s Edge went down here too and many many others.

We\'ll see about the fever.



miff Wrote:
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> Chuck,
>
> It\'s possible he\'s a coward but not to have any
> run at any point seems to suggest he was \"knocked
> out sick\" or has a physical issue which was
> unknown prior to the race.This is kinda an anti
> Zito board(posters, not management) mostly but I
> doubt he sent this horse out knowing something
> might be amiss.
>
> Maybe he\'ll scope dirty,show something physical or
> show nothing wrong at all(love to bet that kind
> back)
>
>
> Mike

[richiebee]

marcus Wrote:
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> Last week while dining in mexico city , i was
> seated at Poncho Villas old table at what was his
> favorite restaurant and noticed from the window ,
> while waiting my desert cafe latte , a group of
> mexico city thoroughbred police horses passing
> along with a manifestation on juarez blvd and
> wondered if a stallion registry could be found to
> trace these horses back and then see what kind of
> numbers they ran ...  


Marcus:

If you can get a hold of Jimmy Breslin\'s biography of Damon Runyan, it includes
a fascinating retelling of a day at the races that Runyan enjoyed with Pancho
Villa. On that day Runyan met his future wife, Patrice, who was 12 years old at
the time, making the Luv Guv\'s \"twinkie\" an old woman by comparison...

Breslin\'s Damon Runyan a great read, but his best stuff may have come in \"The
Gang that Couldn\'t Shoot Straight\", where he describes the wife of a Mafia
chieftan who went out in a fur coat each morning to start her paranoid
husband\'s Cadillac.

Also in Laura Hillenbrand\'s \"Seabiscuit\", a huge flood at the Tijuana Race track
is described, a flood which wiped out the track and resulted in a lot of the
thoroughbreds running free in the countryside. Hillenbrand
describes \"impoverished mountain dwelling Mexicans, who usually got around on
wormy little burros, ...cantering through town in high style, straddling blue
blooded thoroughbreds...\"

In Re War Pass:

1) Zito says he was cut up, which will lead to treatment with antibiotics, and
as TGJB points out, this will lead to missed time.

2) Flighted: I disagree. I think if War Pass makes the Wood, he is closer to
7/5 than 7/2.

3) If WP runs in the Wood, he does not get the benefit of using this race as a
final Derby prep which he can approach 90% cranked. Since he got very little
out of the TB Derby, he will need to be all out in the Wood. How does that
affect his Derby prospects?

4)Once again, the Triple Crown is a piece of headgear with one huge jewel (the
Derby) and two rhinestones. Why wouldn\'t LaPenta and Zito take the necessary
time, regroup and point for a Preakness which will likely feature a much shorter
field (not to mention a slightly shorter distance?).

5) Personally I am still following the development of two \"Tagg Team\" runners,
Tale of Ekati and Elysium Fields.

6) Final Derby prediction. If indeed there is a filly standing in the gate for
the Derby, that will be the filly that Winning Chuckles has been touting. The
reason the name of this filly has yet to be disclosed is because CtC is not
quite sure yet of who it might be. More prognosticration (a hybrid of prognosis
and procrastination) from your Chuckles, who has allegedly narrowed the
Presidential race down to Billary, Obama and McCain.

[Chuckles_the_Clown2]

richiebee Wrote:
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>  
> 3) If WP runs in the Wood, he does not get the
> benefit of using this race as a
> final Derby prep which he can approach 90%
> cranked. Since he got very little
> out of the TB Derby, he will need to be all out in
> the Wood. How does that
> affect his Derby prospects?
>

The Wood becomes the Derby divining rod. We\'ll know when we watch it unfold


> 4)Once again, the Triple Crown is a piece of
> headgear with one huge jewel (the
> Derby) and two rhinestones. Why wouldn\'t LaPenta
> and Zito take the necessary
> time, regroup and point for a Preakness which will
> likely feature a much shorter
> field (not to mention a slightly shorter
> distance?).

We are talking Nick Hero here. The Preakness is a fine race, but only if Strike the Gold or Go For Gin start with the Derby already under the belt.


>
> 5) Personally I am still following the development
> of two \"Tagg Team\" runners,
> Tale of Ekati and Elysium Fields.

Don\'t forget Big Truck


>
> 6) Final Derby prediction. If indeed there is a
> filly standing in the gate for
> the Derby, that will be the filly that Winning
> Chuckles has been touting. The
> reason the name of this filly has yet to be
> disclosed is because CtC is not
> quite sure yet of who it might be. More
> prognosticration (a hybrid of prognosis
> and procrastination) from your Chuckles, who has
> allegedly narrowed the
> Presidential race down to Billary, Obama and
> McCain.

Its the Equal Rights Era Richie. Hillary is on the verge of the either the nomination or smearing a good colt. Since within several equine venues the fillies have been at least as fast as the colts, I\'m in support of further smearing. And I do have a couple smearor candidates, but I\'m like Gore, I hold my endorsement until post time.

[richiebee]

Chuckles_the_Clown2 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
  but I\'m like Gore, I
  hold my endorsement until post time.


Chucksaichi Clownasus:

Yeah, but Gore says he was all over Global Warming 20 years ago... the
ultimate \"future\" selection?

True what you say about comparing colts to fillies in some instances,
like where Mott\'s Mushka\'s Demoiselle win at 9f was faster than Mott\'s
Court Vision\'s Remsen win at 9f less than one hour later over the same
track.

A historical note: The last 2 fillies to win the Derby both
had their final prep against colts: Winning Colors a tour de force 7
length win in the Santa Anita Derby (1988) and Genuine Risk a third place
finish in the Wood Memorial (1980).

[fkach]

To me it seems more likely that something was wrong with the horse because he was just too bad to believe. But I\'ve seen other horses run very poorly when roughed up for the first time. Right now he looks more like Commentator than Seattle Slew. ;-)

[marcus]

richiebee- i\'m definitely going to check out that breslin biography of damon runyan - i got to give fishel\'s text book like  \"the secret war for the union \" a break ... i\'ve seen the gang that couldn\'t shoot straight many times , i\'m in stitches just thinking about it . and a couple great racing scenes too , one at atl ( i think ) and the sit down meeting  ... been waiting for bob the gambler ( bob le flembard ) w/ sub-titles or dubbed english  to turn up again somewhere . i\'m going to do like chuck and start thinking about the possibility of a fillie ( or a fresh face perhaps ) winning the  triple crown or maybe a race - or two  again this year  ... any morning line  on clinton / paterson ...

[Flighted Iron]

Certainly the odds will dictate the play and yes,the Wood is his chance for
redemption.However,I\'m still in camp Pyro.

[basket777]

tampa has a very short window on the telicast to the meadowlands where it shows the w/p/s pools. we were all waiting and waiting to see if there was a minus show pool which with 4 min left we saw way hugh.  

pluncked dow 250 to show on the 5 and 20 more on each other horse.

score with almost no risk if the 5 shows.  it did went home after that

[miff]

Basket,

Teach us. What if War Pass hits the board, doesnt everything pay $2.10 to show and you risk losing like $350.00? in a most likely scenario?. I guess you figured WP to be off the board. You might be the only horsepalyer in the country who thought WP would be off the board and put their money up. Congrats!

Mike

[Chuckles_the_Clown2]

I\'m not a show bettor. Too much risk for me.

1st you had to be relatively certain War Pass was gonna run a clunker bad enough to run out.

2nd you had to be confident Dynamic Wayne was gonna hit the board. (That was risky too) If Gentleman James had rated Wayne would not have hit the board.

Provided you select a board hitting show horse with your major bet you\'re guaranteed to get back most of your bet. (He spent a 100 bucks on the other five)

That wager paid off, but with that strategy you\'re gonna go through long loss and minor return spells.



Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Basket,
>
> Teach us. What if War Pass hits the board, doesnt
> everything pay $2.10 to show and you risk losing
> like $350.00? in a most likely scenario?. I guess
> you figured WP to be off the board. You might be
> the only horsepalyer in the country who thought WP
> would be off the board and put their money up.
> Congrats!
>
> Mike

[Bally Ache]

basket777,

Is English your second language?

Seriously, as Miff already made clear, getting involved with show minus pools is not a good idea because you have to be right every time.  Horse racing is not conducive to being right every time.

[miff]

Seems the fever was not an issue according to Zito and everything is checking out ok. Zito may want to check WP\'s heart, it may not be too big.


Mike



By JAY PRIVMAN
For a guy who admitted to \"having one of the worst nights of my life on Saturday,\" trainer Nick Zito sounded far better on Monday, two days after War Pass turned in an inexplicably dreadful effort when losing for the first time in the Tampa Bay Derby.

As of Monday, Zito said he could find nothing wrong with War Pass. Barring anything untoward coming to the fore, Zito said he was going to throw the race out and move on, as previously planned, to the Grade 1, $750,000 Wood Memorial at Aqueduct on April 5 as a final prep for the Kentucky Derby on May 3 at Churchill Downs.

Zito, speaking Monday from the Palm Meadows training center in Florida, where he and War Pass have been based this winter, said: \"We scoped him. Everything was perfect. We took X-rays. No change. We\'ll keep taking more today. He\'ll go back to the track on Wednesday.

\"I\'m baffled right now. We know whatever happened, that wasn\'t him. That we know.\"

Zito opined that perhaps War Pass did not care for the surface at Tampa - he had never previously raced there.

\"He always likes to hear his feet rattle,\" Zito said of War Pass, last year\'s 2-year-old champion.

Zito objected to the widely reported characterization of War Pass running days after having a fever, which is what co-owner Robert LaPenta was reported to have told some media members immediately following the race

\"He did not have a fever,\" Zito said. \"Fever means you\'re sick. On my mother\'s life, he never missed an oat. His temperature was a little high, just slightly, last Sunday, but he was fine the rest of the week. Just to make sure, we took a blood on him on Thursday, and it was perfect. He did not have a fever. That\'s not why he got beat. Why did he get beat? That\'s what we are trying to figure out.

[Lost Cause]

miff Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Basket,
>
> Teach us. What if War Pass hits the board, doesnt
> everything pay $2.10 to show and you risk losing
> like $350.00? in a most likely scenario?. I guess
> you figured WP to be off the board. You might be
> the only horsepalyer in the country who thought WP
> would be off the board and put their money up.
> Congrats!
>
> Mike


Basket was not the only one who thought that War Pass would run a stinker..I hammered the show bet on Big Truck and Atoned (The only two horses in the race as far as I was concerned) It looks like a lot of people thought the same also considering the payoffs in the exotics..real low..I said it before War Pass seems to be an uncontrollable speed type...when those kinds get looked in the eye they usually crack.  This horse is not as good as the hype...Stick a fork in him...

[alm]

I had a nice filly a few years ago that won 10 races lifetime.  She ran several times at Tampa as a 2 yo and 3 yo and rarely hit the board.  The last race she had at Tampa as a 3 yo was in a $10,000 claimer and she was out of the money.  In her next race,a month later at Turfway in a $30,000 claimer, she destroyed the field.  She went on to win several races in allowance company at Churchill.

Some of them just don\'t like Tampa.

[basket777]

Thanks for letting me know my shortcomings.