Last Generation (Last Post)

[richiebee]

On Thursday, my best pal JR and I are going for a round of golf.

The round of golf has been carefully planned so that at its conclusion we can
dash over to Monmouth Park to catch a couple of live races and maybe the last 3
races from Belmont. That doesn\'t make us bad guys, does it?

In Manhattan on Monday, the Daily News was being given out for free. I read
Jerry Bossert\'s comments. Let me say that I know Jerry and his family casually
and I know that Jerry is a nice young man who aspires to be Russ Harris.. that
is he wants to support himself by attending the races until he is 90 or so
years old.

To paraphrase Jerry, his feeling is that a lot of the bankrupt,disheartened,
demoralized, lame duck NYRA employees were relieved that Curlin outgamed Street
Sense in the Preakness, the feeling among said employees being that the large
Triple Crown anticipating crowd would have meant a lot of extra work for said
employees. There was disgust in JB\'s narrative as well there should have been.

Is New York racing the proverbial canary in the coal mine? If NY racing hits
bottom, is racing nationwide going to be dragged down?

NY racing is now a joke. The racing office relies on cheap grass races to
provide full fields. The greeders are stretching the gene pool to its breaking
point, and the result is an endless procession of maiden, state bred and cheap
grass races (and sometimes cheap NYB grass races). The only important overnight
racing in New York takes place upstate,and even Saratoga racing is diluted with
greeder driven cards of NYBs and overpriced maidens.

I respect the opinions of the posters on this board quite a bit. Are there any
of you who can propose a scenario whereby Racing is a thriving sport/ business
15 years from now?

There are no leaders it seems, only lackeys, interested only in fixing the
drapes on the racing Titanic on the way to the lifeboats. Who are the young
visionaries who will save Racing?

Are we the last generation of horseplayers?

[Chuckles_the_Clown2]

That was a profound post Richie and my response is not going to do it justice.

I will say this. If NY Racing needed a Triple Crown on the line to survive or the Sport needs a Triple Crown winner to grow the game is aleady dead.

In some ways I like this era. Sprinting horses bred to infirm horses making it easier to spot a horse bred closer to how the ancient Sportsmen in the game bred for the Classic races. Trainers using chemistry to improve horses invariably opens the door for beating low odds horses when they have to face the best non chemistry horses in the most challenging races.

I would agree the sport has been damaged much like our presidency. The blueblood stables ran this game 50 years ago. Now its the mega wealthy dabbler hoping to buy a Kentucky Derby winner or profit from international strife. What does he know? Very little and thats why he hires a mechanic like one of the usual suspects. Money is the root of all evil.

I said something biblical didn\'t I?

richiebee Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> On Thursday, my best pal JR and I are going for a
> round of golf.
>
> The round of golf has been carefully planned so
> that at its conclusion we can
> dash over to Monmouth Park to catch a couple of
> live races and maybe the last 3
> races from Belmont. That doesn\'t make us bad guys,
> does it?
>
> In Manhattan on Monday, the Daily News was being
> given out for free. I read
> Jerry Bossert\'s comments. Let me say that I know
> Jerry and his family casually
> and I know that Jerry is a nice young man who
> aspires to be Russ Harris.. that
> is he wants to support himself by attending the
> races until he is 90 or so
> years old.
>
> To paraphrase Jerry, his feeling is that a lot of
> the bankrupt,disheartened,
> demoralized, lame duck NYRA employees were
> relieved that Curlin outgamed Street
> Sense in the Preakness, the feeling among said
> employees being that the large
> Triple Crown anticipating crowd would have meant a
> lot of extra work for said
> employees. There was disgust in JB\'s narrative as
> well there should have been.
>
> Is New York racing the proverbial canary in the
> coal mine? If NY racing hits
> bottom, is racing nationwide going to be dragged
> down?
>
> NY racing is now a joke. The racing office relies
> on cheap grass races to
> provide full fields. The greeders are stretching
> the gene pool to its breaking
> point, and the result is an endless procession of
> maiden, state bred and cheap
> grass races (and sometimes cheap NYB grass races).
> The only important overnight
> racing in New York takes place upstate,and even
> Saratoga racing is diluted with
> greeder driven cards of NYBs and overpriced
> maidens.
>
> I respect the opinions of the posters on this
> board quite a bit. Are there any
> of you who can propose a scenario whereby Racing
> is a thriving sport/ business
> 15 years from now?
>
> There are no leaders it seems, only lackeys,
> interested only in fixing the
> drapes on the racing Titanic on the way to the
> lifeboats. Who are the young
> visionaries who will save Racing?
>
> Are we the last generation of horseplayers?

[davidrex]

Casino interests will revive racing ,not to previous heights,but certainly a big improvement over todays\' product.
Unfortuneatly as competition starts squeezing the bottom line of these corporations,one of the first venues to be left behind will be the ponies.
So...things start improving in a few years,then slowly deteriorate,all within a 12-15 year time span.
Someone writes a book and Coen brothers make a movie that evokes tears and laughter simultaneously.

[marcus]

richiebee , i hope it\'s not \" ny racing we hardly knew \'ya \" becouse i\'m still just getting my seat and also that racing is a great american passtime and frontier as well .

racing on cheap grass in ny - i belive it , but there are places where corners can not be cut and nyra should imo go \" top shelf \"- it might help . i shouldn\'t think golfing could make one a person bad , and afterall , you did make the last 3 races at mth - besides that 7th day must be respected .

i still belive  - as you and i have disscussed before , that \"casino aqueduct\" is the way to go  . i know that your opinion and others on this board about the future of racing must be respected and all will weigh the options while keeping an open mind on what needs to happen for ny to once again assume a leadership role in north american racing  .

from my own personal viewpoint , perhaps the lady who runs grandstand coffee and hotdog stand at aqueduct upstairs across from the 16th pole should take over at the helm for nyra - she\'s bright and always seems down to earth and wouldn\'t do any worse than what seems to be there now  .

[alm]

These posts remind me of an op-ed piece I read the other day about how scared the media make us and have always been making us on issue after issue for decades.  Everything always looks dire when the media focuses hard on the bad parts of an issue, but it\'s only one view and it usually passes in time.

Same with racing.

No matter how dispiriting it is to see the effects of blood doping on individual race results or overbreeding to fit lucrative state programs or the empty grandstands, there are other sides to these issues.

Many more people are betting because of the internet, interstate wagering, off shore betting, so might be just as easy to conclude that there is more interest than ever.  Depends on which side of the telescope you are using and which facts you observe and comment about.

Better horses are being bred no matter what you say about the good old days and so on.  Jerry Brown will tell you the good horses are getting faster and they are.  The scientific approach to breeding, led by groups like Equix Biomechanics and individuals like Casey Seaman and Bob Fierro are producing stakes quality distance runners from stallions who were sprinters.  It\'s the same gene pool and it\'s being used better than ever by savvy breeders.  Stupid breeders are what they are.  Forget them.

I personally watch more racing than I ever did in the old days because of simulcasting and streaming video and it makes me happy.

So I won\'t go down this path with you guys.  I grew up at Aqueduct in the 60s going to the races with 40,000 other people on Saturdays and it was a gas, but it\'s over.  If a racetrack today has a thousand people in attendance and a grandstand to hold only five thousand, it\'s irrelevant to me.

The horse is what counts.  From my point of view, the sport is better than it ever was.

[marcus]

interesting idea\'s to consider - and on many levels your right . i always appreciate diversity in opinions ,  i don\'t want to be guilty of using a one size fits all mentality when keeping an open mind might be the best course  - i\'m taking the matter under advisement . . .

[richiebee]

Alm:

   I appreciate your response and can argue with very little that you say. There
is no question that racing is more accessible than it was in the days of great
NY racing in the early 70s; there is more information available about racing
then ever before; and there are more wagering opportunites in terms of exotic
wagers.

   My post concerned the FUTURE (15 years from now,lets say) of racing. The only
scenario where I see racing continuing into the future with any success
involves compression: Fewer racetracks, fewer racing days, fewer horses being
bred. These remaining tracks (and there is room in this scenario for functional
smaller tracks such as Tampa Bay Downs, Colonial and Turfway) would have to be
administered by one sanctioning body which provides a comprehensive and
efficient TV/Internet Wagering platform. This compression would allow for a
nationwide racing schedule where tracks do not compete for horses (Fair Grounds
and Oaklawn ie)and that would increase the size of fields in important stakes
races.

   I have the greatest respect for those who can anticipate the problems to be
encountered in the FUTURE. I am rather neutral on NY Mayor Michael Bloomberg,
but I am very impressed with his recent announcement of plans to curb pollution
and promote energy conservation 30 - 40 years from now. The point of my post
was that someone (everyone) needs to focus at least some resources to the FUTURE
of racing, or else there may be no FUTURE of racing.

[richiebee]

Alm:

 You wrote the below post in reference to a pessimistic, woe is us, state of
racing post I wrote on 5/24. Your post ends \"From my point of view, the sport is
better than it ever was\"

 Fast forward to the day after the Belmont Stakes, and you are absolutely
disgusted. Dispersing your racing and breeding stock. Absolutely disconsolate
that TAP the ALLEGED \"blood doper\" won the Belmont Stakes. It is almost as if
TAP took a humbly bred animal that you once owned, ran her up the class ladder,
and ended up winning the Belmont.

 Lets forget about the allegations surrounding Pletcher, his vets and blood
doping. Rags to Riches was a logical winner of the Belmont; her victory
strengthened, not shook, a lot of the foundations of handicapping as most of us
know them. How about (A) she was the best bred animal in the Belmont; only a
hard spent Hard Spun\'s breeding comes close. How about (B) she was a fresh
animal going against 2 colts who had demanding 3YO campaigns. How about (C) the
five pound weight allowance she received as a filly may have been the
difference in the race (I will leave it to the true numbers guys to determine
whether her ground loss canceled her weight advantage). How about (D) she was
ridden flawlessly after a stumbling start by John Velazquez. The only
aberration might be that she is one of the few 3YOs to campaign in California
in recent years to have an impact in the Triple Crown series.

 Get off the grassy knoll. Pletcher\'s advantage is not blood doping. TAP has
access to major resources, not the least of which is high priced stock. He gets
major stall allocations at any track he requests them from, which allows him to
stable his young horses at the track long before they are ready to run (IMO a
big advantage). TAP employs exercise riders in large numbers, which allows him
to train these youngsters in large sets, giving them seasoning. The racing
offices at all tracks write races to satisfy TAP, which is another way of
saying that TAP has candidates for almost every race in the condition book save
for the bottom claimers. His owners allow him to take the necessary time to
allow his stock to develop, perform and recover.

 I can not say this enough times. Pletcher runs as many horses as any trainer in
the US; he wins with around 25% of these runners, and has year after year. As
such his runners are subjected to more testing than the runners coming from any
other stable. He has had one positive-- for mepivicaine. So after what-- a ten
year training career, during which he has won major and minor stakes races
across the country at a staggering rate-- he has been \"sat down\" a total of 45
days.

 But enough already with TAP. In your post you said the following: \"Many more
people are betting because of the internet, interstate wagering and offshore
betting so [it] might be just as EASY to conclude that there is more interest
than ever. Depends on which side of the telescope you are using and which facts
you observe and comment about.\" (My emphasis on the word \"easy\", because you
certainly tailored your analysis to fit the conclusion)

 Here are the facts, plain to see with the naked eye, no \"telescope\" necessary.
(1)There are less people going to the races; (2) It is likely that a good deal
of all the money you see wagered-- interstate, intertrack, offshore, whatever--
is wagered by a smaller nucleus of heavy gamblers, whom your pal Miff would
call whales. All of the modern technology you mention has simply made it easier
for the whales to spread their money around to various racing venues.
Since \"whaling\" is as far as I can tell not a family business, I can not say
for certain whether a new generation of cetaceans is being spawned to continue
to prop up pari mutuel wagering.

  I make you for a retired guy who has plenty of leisure time and you are happy
that you have so many outlets for your wagerlust. Lets talk about the FUTURE of
Racing. Lets take an age group say 25- 40 years old, males, with disposable
income. Lets play it Karnak\'s way: the answers are Sports Betting, Poker and
Horse Racing.

  The question, once again, is where the next generation of horseplayers is
coming from. A lot of 20 and 30 somethings don\'t have the kinship with the
horse that comes from being around them when they were growing up. A lot of 20
and 30 somethings don\'t have a parent or uncle that introduced them to Racing
when they were young. And while some college campuses may be close to a
racetrack, almost all of these campuses have thriving though not welcome sports
betting enterprises and plenty of poker, whether it be online or the old
fashioned game held around a keg at a frat house or in a dorm room.

  Put it this way: If Steve Crist and Jerry Brown were 30 years old, instead of
nearly in their dotage, and they wanted to continue doing what they are
currently doing for the next 25 years, they would be quite worried about
cultivating a future fan base for horse racing to support their respective
enterprises.

  And by the way, although some might say that Kelso\'s five consecutive HOTYs
and JCGCs were not as impressive as Teriyaki Steak\'s 5 NYRA wins in one month,
you, as a breeder/ owner, should know better.







alm Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> These posts remind me of an op-ed piece I read the
> other day about how scared the media make us and
> have always been making us on issue after issue
> for decades.  Everything always looks dire when
> the media focuses hard on the bad parts of an
> issue, but it\'s only one view and it usually
> passes in time.
>
> Same with racing.
>
> No matter how dispiriting it is to see the effects
> of blood doping on individual race results or
> overbreeding to fit lucrative state programs or
> the empty grandstands, there are other sides to
> these issues.
>
> Many more people are betting because of the
> internet, interstate wagering, off shore betting,
> so might be just as easy to conclude that there is
> more interest than ever.  Depends on which side of
> the telescope you are using and which facts you
> observe and comment about.
>
> Better horses are being bred no matter what you
> say about the good old days and so on.  Jerry
> Brown will tell you the good horses are getting
> faster and they are.  The scientific approach to
> breeding, led by groups like Equix Biomechanics
> and individuals like Casey Seaman and Bob Fierro
> are producing stakes quality distance runners from
> stallions who were sprinters.  It\'s the same gene
> pool and it\'s being used better than ever by savvy
> breeders.  Stupid breeders are what they are.
> Forget them.
>
> I personally watch more racing than I ever did in
> the old days because of simulcasting and streaming
> video and it makes me happy.
>
> So I won\'t go down this path with you guys.  I
> grew up at Aqueduct in the 60s going to the races
> with 40,000 other people on Saturdays and it was a
> gas, but it\'s over.  If a racetrack today has a
> thousand people in attendance and a grandstand to
> hold only five thousand, it\'s irrelevant to me.
>
> The horse is what counts.  From my point of view,
> the sport is better than it ever was.

[Chuckles_the_Clown2]

Lets not provide the \"Al Capone\" of Thoroughbred racing with the cover he desires. Of all places, certainly not here.

The Belmont can be summed up in one word.

The pace was tepid.

Hard Spun bounced
CP West bounced
Curlin Regressed
Tiago managed to find trouble
Slews Tizzy didn\'t get over the Sandy
Wild Guy was compromised by the pace and the Sandy

Rags to Riches was by a Belmont Winner out of a Mare that had produced a Belmont winner before her.  Pletcher had nothing to do with those factors.

Pletcher positioned Rags to come in fresh and the stars aligned to enable her to eek one out.

Al Capone had some legitimate businesses. They got him on Tax Evasion, but he murdered people and sullied a city for years.

richiebee Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Alm:
>
>  You wrote the below post in reference to a
> pessimistic, woe is us, state of
> racing post I wrote on 5/24. Your post ends \"From
> my point of view, the sport is
> better than it ever was\"
>
>  Fast forward to the day after the Belmont Stakes,
> and you are absolutely
> disgusted. Dispersing your racing and breeding
> stock. Absolutely disconsolate
> that TAP the ALLEGED \"blood doper\" won the Belmont
> Stakes. It is almost as if
> TAP took a humbly bred animal that you once owned,
> ran her up the class ladder,
> and ended up winning the Belmont.
>
>  Lets forget about the allegations surrounding
> Pletcher, his vets and blood
> doping. Rags to Riches was a logical winner of the
> Belmont; her victory
> strengthened, not shook, a lot of the foundations
> of handicapping as most of us
> know them. How about (A) she was the best bred
> animal in the Belmont; only a
> hard spent Hard Spun\'s breeding comes close. How
> about (B) she was a fresh
> animal going against 2 colts who had demanding 3YO
> campaigns. How about (C) the
> five pound weight allowance she received as a
> filly may have been the
> difference in the race (I will leave it to the
> true numbers guys to determine
> whether her ground loss canceled her weight
> advantage). How about (D) she was
> ridden flawlessly after a stumbling start by John
> Velazquez. The only
> aberration might be that she is one of the few
> 3YOs to campaign in California
> in recent years to have an impact in the Triple
> Crown series.
>
>  Get off the grassy knoll. Pletcher\'s advantage is
> not blood doping. TAP has
> access to major resources, not the least of which
> is high priced stock. He gets
> major stall allocations at any track he requests
> them from, which allows him to
> stable his young horses at the track long before
> they are ready to run (IMO a
> big advantage). TAP employs exercise riders in
> large numbers, which allows him
> to train these youngsters in large sets, giving
> them seasoning. The racing
> offices at all tracks write races to satisfy TAP,
> which is another way of
> saying that TAP has candidates for almost every
> race in the condition book save
> for the bottom claimers. His owners allow him to
> take the necessary time to
> allow his stock to develop, perform and recover.
>
>  I can not say this enough times. Pletcher runs as
> many horses as any trainer in
> the US; he wins with around 25% of these runners,
> and has year after year. As
> such his runners are subjected to more testing
> than the runners coming from any
> other stable. He has had one positive-- for
> mepivicaine. So after what-- a ten
> year training career, during which he has won
> major and minor stakes races
> across the country at a staggering rate-- he has
> been \"sat down\" a total of 45
> days.
>
>  But enough already with TAP. In your post you
> said the following: \"Many more
> people are betting because of the internet,
> interstate wagering and offshore
> betting so  might be just as EASY to conclude that
> there is more interest
> than ever. Depends on which side of the telescope
> you are using and which facts
> you observe and comment about.\" (My emphasis on
> the word \"easy\", because you
> certainly tailored your analysis to fit the
> conclusion)
>
>  Here are the facts, plain to see with the naked
> eye, no \"telescope\" necessary.
> (1)There are less people going to the races; (2)
> It is likely that a good deal
> of all the money you see wagered-- interstate,
> intertrack, offshore, whatever--
> is wagered by a smaller nucleus of heavy gamblers,
> whom your pal Miff would
> call whales. All of the modern technology you
> mention has simply made it easier
> for the whales to spread their money around to
> various racing venues.
> Since \"whaling\" is as far as I can tell not a
> family business, I can not say
> for certain whether a new generation of cetaceans
> is being spawned to continue
> to prop up pari mutuel wagering.
>
>   I make you for a retired guy who has plenty of
> leisure time and you are happy
> that you have so many outlets for your wagerlust.
> Lets talk about the FUTURE of
> Racing. Lets take an age group say 25- 40 years
> old, males, with disposable
> income. Lets play it Karnak\'s way: the answers are
> Sports Betting, Poker and
> Horse Racing.
>
>   The question, once again, is where the next
> generation of horseplayers is
> coming from. A lot of 20 and 30 somethings don\'t
> have the kinship with the
> horse that comes from being around them when they
> were growing up. A lot of 20
> and 30 somethings don\'t have a parent or uncle
> that introduced them to Racing
> when they were young. And while some college
> campuses may be close to a
> racetrack, almost all of these campuses have
> thriving though not welcome sports
> betting enterprises and plenty of poker, whether
> it be online or the old
> fashioned game held around a keg at a frat house
> or in a dorm room.
>
>   Put it this way: If Steve Crist and Jerry Brown
> were 30 years old, instead of
> nearly in their dotage, and they wanted to
> continue doing what they are
> currently doing for the next 25 years, they would
> be quite worried about
> cultivating a future fan base for horse racing to
> support their respective
> enterprises.
>
>   And by the way, although some might say that
> Kelso\'s five consecutive HOTYs
> and JCGCs were not as impressive as Teriyaki
> Steak\'s 5 NYRA wins in one month,
> you, as a breeder/ owner, should know better.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> alm Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > These posts remind me of an op-ed piece I read
> the
> > other day about how scared the media make us
> and
> > have always been making us on issue after issue
> > for decades.  Everything always looks dire when
> > the media focuses hard on the bad parts of an
> > issue, but it\'s only one view and it usually
> > passes in time.
> >
> > Same with racing.
> >
> > No matter how dispiriting it is to see the
> effects
> > of blood doping on individual race results or
> > overbreeding to fit lucrative state programs or
> > the empty grandstands, there are other sides to
> > these issues.
> >
> > Many more people are betting because of the
> > internet, interstate wagering, off shore
> betting,
> > so might be just as easy to conclude that there
> is
> > more interest than ever.  Depends on which side
> of
> > the telescope you are using and which facts you
> > observe and comment about.
> >
> > Better horses are being bred no matter what you
> > say about the good old days and so on.  Jerry
> > Brown will tell you the good horses are getting
> > faster and they are.  The scientific approach
> to
> > breeding, led by groups like Equix Biomechanics
> > and individuals like Casey Seaman and Bob
> Fierro
> > are producing stakes quality distance runners
> from
> > stallions who were sprinters.  It\'s the same
> gene
> > pool and it\'s being used better than ever by
> savvy
> > breeders.  Stupid breeders are what they are.
> > Forget them.
> >
> > I personally watch more racing than I ever did
> in
> > the old days because of simulcasting and
> streaming
> > video and it makes me happy.
> >
> > So I won\'t go down this path with you guys.  I
> > grew up at Aqueduct in the 60s going to the
> races
> > with 40,000 other people on Saturdays and it was
> a
> > gas, but it\'s over.  If a racetrack today has a
> > thousand people in attendance and a grandstand
> to
> > hold only five thousand, it\'s irrelevant to me.
> >
> > The horse is what counts.  From my point of
> view,
> > the sport is better than it ever was.

[richiebee]

AP Chucky:

    I am not a huge Pletcher fan, but logic, reason and a clear evaluation of
fact and figure appeal to me.

    The knock on TAP before Saturday was that TAP couldn\'t win a Triple Crown
race. Now that he has won a TC race, it follows logically that we must say that
RTR did not run fast enough, or that she beat a less than stellar field. The
truth is she outgamed one of the colts in the race who belonged in a Grade 1,
and benefitted from the fact that the other proven Graded quality colt in the
race was ridden in a way which will not soon be forgotten.

    Some of the best stories I read about Al Capone were in Jimmy Breslin\'s
biography of Damon Runyon (DR and AC were neighbors in Florida). (I have never
been comfortable with a bulked up DeNiro\'s portrayal of AC in the Untouchables
movie). The fact is that Capone ended up in federal prison, where he died, I
believe, of a dread social disease.

    Capone ends up in prison. TAP ends up in Saratoga, on Union Avenue, in
Racing\'s Hall of Fame. He ends up there as did Mott and McGaughey and his old
boss D. Wayne while he is still an active trainer. He ends up there with all
kinds of lifetime records which may never be broken. By the time he is finished,
there is plenty of Triple Crown and Breeders Cup glory on his resume.

    Chuckles, I fear that your Ahab like obsession with TAP will cause you to
forget who the true cheaters in the game are. Like the two high percentage sons
of an old Maryland trainer (one of whom is currently sat down). Like the
Louisiana trainer who is currently I believe under indictment for manslaughter.
There is a charming high percentage trainer with a foreign accent who trains in
the US because he might not be permitted to train in Europe or Hong Kong. Out
on the west coast there is a conditioner who basically called the few remaining
souls who still bet on thoroughbreds \"assholes\" or idiots. And from the past
there is the Father, Son and Holy Ghost of NY racing, Oscar, The Pistol and the
Gas Man. None of the above named will end up in the Hall of Fame unless they
pass through the turnstile.

   One consolation for you, CTC, is that if you bet against TAP each time he
runs,you will prevail 70-75% of the time and that is not a bad percentage
anywhere.

   As to \"slow\", Pat Day (who would have given HS a better chance than GG)(for
that matter, Doris Day may have) once said \"Time only matters if you\'re in
prison.\"

[davidrex]

Richie,
Excellent collection of your previous thoughts;and lord knows I\'m a big fan of your written word(if not entirely of its\' content),but did you ever stop to think that maybe ALM isn\'t exactly who he claims to be?
Guess its just a case of the wheel that squeaks the loudest....

[miff]

Bee,


In NY there are about 10-20 smaller trainers and 20-40 smaller owners who are on the edge of extinction.For the most part, their stock does not measure up with the bigger claiming outfits and the bigger allowance/stakes outfits in NY.

This past winter,I attended a meeting of horsemen who presented to NYRA management their concerns in this regard. These horsemen and owners were assured that NYRA was doing their best to accomodate these outfits while balancing the \"preference\" they are showing larger outfits. It is no secret that the larger outfits make lots of races go by entering sometimes as a favor to the race office, especially in the winter.The frustrations of many of the smaller guys has to do with many issues, drugs being one of them. I can tell you that TAP is NOT one of the trainers that many are concerned with(whether or not he is using).Every one of them will tell you that there are at least 10 NY trainers who would do as well or better than TAP if they had his barn.Several think Alan Jerkens would win at 35- 40% all year round because they feel he is a far superior horseman.

There are jealousies all around and some trainers tell unsophisticated owners that they are not winning because the other guys are all using illegal stuff. True in small part, mainly bull.They run them too high because they don\'t want to lose the horse/monthly and too often they are overmatched. Bigger outfits drop, recycle and have fresh capital rolling in all the time and some may be using illegal stuff to boot.

I sense the frustration of the ALM\'s of the racing world but it\'s only the grassy knoll guys who think that a large number of winners are drugged.I think some are illegally drugged and know that the modern trainer is playing very close to the line with legal drugs.Go to the TG redboard room and take a look athe Delaware circuit,the figs for common horses are amazing for certain trainers there.

I\'ll just say that the drug thing is very much out there but the scrutiny in NY is well above what many who post here could ever imagine, even though money is tough at NYRA.

The frustartion of those losing in the game is that the guys they suspect continue to flourish while they are losing their money.All of the potential NYRA franchise owners have promised big money to fund Cornell,with the Aussies almost promising to clean up the drug thing.I hope it happens as I am very curious to see how a real deterrent affects the win % of certain trainers.



Mike

[Bally Ache]

Richiebee,

Ben Jones said that long before Pat Day.  In fact, it\'s one of the oldest bromides on the racetrack.  It also happens to be untrue.  If you\'re not going to pay close attention to time in this game, you better have really deep pockets.

[imallin]

The key for a trainer is to cheat when they are young, get a great percentage and then get better owners, better horses so they don\'t have to cheat anymore.

Sort of like cheating on a college exam, getting a degree from a good school, than going out and getting good job at a good company so you don\'t have to cheat anymore.

I\'d be surprised if TAP is cheating on a grand scale. He might be \'keeping up with the joneses\' by giving a moderate amt of baking soda (that reads barely under the legal limit) and doing other high tech stuff to gain an edge, but you have to realize that TAP just has to show up to win. OTHER trainers have to cheat in a hard core way to beat TAP on a level playing field.

For every hard core cheater out there, there are 9 out of 10 trainers who are not jeopardizing their careers by using big time drugs.

Also, TAP has the ability to spend any amt of money on vets and care and whatnut that average stables don\'t have the ability to do.

The breeding and quality of TAP\'s stock is enough to get him to the winners circle over 20 pct of the time. He always has the best jocks too, so he\'ll win a certain pct of races by a nose, neck or head where his jock outrode the other trainer\'s jock.

If TAP was a hardcore cheater, with his bankroll and horses, he\'d be winning 50 pct of the time. If the best bred horse has the most powerful drugs and the best jockey in the race, he\'d probably be winning more than he\'s winning already.