Polytrack and bounces/regressions

[bobphilo]

I think in the future we may see many trainers using Poly for training regardless of which surface the horses race on. It does seem to have a strong conditioning effect while being easier on the legs.
Biancone has been training Gorella exclusively on Poly though she is strictly a turfer. I wonder what other trainers are using this type of "cross training".

Bob

[miff]

Bob,

Biancone loves to train on the poly for all of his stock.Dickenson has trained on the stuff for a few years too. I still think it\'s too soon to tell if they are legged up more on that stuff.It\'s all the rage today by most accounts. I know that Zito and a few others swear by the heavy dirt surface at the Spa training track for legging one up.It will be interesting to see just how much the poly will reduce the percentage of breakdowns.

Can\'t you just hear the next trainer excuse, \"My horse just hated that poly surface\"

Mike

[bobphilo]

Mike,

Time will tell the value of Poly as a conditioning surface. However, the evidence is very strong from everywhere it\'s been used, both here and the UK, that it dramatically reduces injuries and breakdowns.

I\'m looking forward to seeing how Gorella does in the BC off her training on it. She has been recording some very fast works though it\'s not a fast surface.

Bob

[richiebee]

I think one of the more impressive Keeneland polytrack races I\'ve seen was by turfer Asi Siempre, who dismantled her foes in the Spinster.

Where to go next with AS-- turf, dirt or Pollywood?

[miff]

Bob,

I believe Gorilla is training at Turfway. I read the Turfway poly surface has been tweaked to make it faster.I kinda think Gorilla is over rated but I have not seen her latest TG fig.I think that sand based turf course at CD is unusually kind to closers, like Gorilla.

That thing of Pletchers(Wait a While) is a freak on the grass and it should be a great race with Ouiji Board and the other Europeans.

Mike

[jmetro]

fasteddie Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Poly is a brave new world; must be like racing in
> the old days as speed figures are practically
> usless right now. Some interesting developments as
> follows:
>
>
>    10-6   Lordly (65.20) Turf-to-Poly
>           Bel Air Beauty (96.80) Maiden w/Poly
> last race
>
>
>    10-7   Fast Point (24.40) Poly last race
>           Kelly\'s Landing (26.20) 4/28 breeze on
> Poly
>           Great Hunter (13.60) 3/21 work on Hol.
> Poly
>
>
>    10-8   Arteliaco (10.40) breeze on Poly
>           Poschner (155.20) Turf-to-Poly
>           Patricia (22.00) Turf-to-Poly
>           Asi Siempre (11.00) Turf-to-Poly
>
> Will be interesting to follow horses who use the
> Blue Grass as a Derby prep next year as you may
> find a in-form dirt horse who hates this stuff be
> a square price the first Sat. in May!!

FWIW, 9 of the 22 polytrack races at Keeneland this past weekend were won by horses who, apparently, never had sat foot on the surface before.  

Only conclusion to draw is there is no conclusion.

[fasteddie]

jmetro:

not so fast! the turf-to-poly angle is HUGE!!

10-6 Of the 7 races on the poly, ALL were won by horses who either ran or trained on poly,or turfed in last start. I\'m including Pyramid Love, who was eased in the Alabama in her only dirt try for this Biancone turf horse.

10-7 Of the 8 races, 6 were won by poly raced or trained, or went turf-to-poly.

10-8 of the 7 races, 6 were won by poly trained, or went turf-to-poly.

Thats\' 20 of 22, an INSANE statistic any way you slice it!

[jmetro]

fasteddie Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> jmetro:
>
> not so fast! the turf-to-poly angle is HUGE!!
>
> 10-6 Of the 7 races on the poly, ALL were won by
> horses who either ran or trained on poly,or turfed
> in last start. I\'m including Pyramid Love, who was
> eased in the Alabama in her only dirt try for this
> Biancone turf horse.
>
> 10-7 Of the 8 races, 6 were won by poly raced or
> trained, or went turf-to-poly.
>
> 10-8 of the 7 races, 6 were won by poly trained,
> or went turf-to-poly.
>
> Thats\' 20 of 22, an INSANE statistic any way you
> slice it!
>
>

My point was that 9 of the weekend winners, over 40%, had never set foot on the surface before, and not so much the turf to poly angle.

If this angle is working for you that\'s great.  I\'m still looking.

[miff]

Check out the DRF article by Andy Beyer in Fridays DRF.Seems the genius Pres of Keeneland, Nick Nicholson, thinks its great that ONE lay over speedhorse has won on the poly since the Kee meet began.Also there seems to be some veracity that the turf angle does work on poly(some here have posted that also)

Like Beyer said, I wonder what the breeders with hundreds of millions invested in breeding \"speed\" think of frontrunners getting late every race on poly. It just reconfirms that most track managers are clueless. The idea Mr.Nicholson is to have no bias not a closer or speed bias, duh!

Mike

[jbelfior]

Miff:

Yes, I hear you. But just look at the bright side of it. How about the conditioning that some of these speed types or pace pressers will get out of the BC preps run over the Keenland polytrack or,for that matter,when they ship elsewhere.

The lemmings will see a recent poor effort and ignore. Others may see a horse (or filly/mare) that needed conditioning due to a layoff and proceed accordingly.



Good Luck,
Joe B.

[miff]

Joe B,

Giving a mulligan for a poor poly effort is going to be a good angle.My point is how can you gamble on that stuff with any conviction?

Good Luck,
Mike

[jbelfior]

Miff:

I agree. I can only play off of it. Even without Polytrack, my personal plays are 80-20 in favor of turf. IMO,the thoro numbers help clear up a turf world that is very foggy to the average player.

Installing Polytrack in NY (Heaven forbid) would seal the deal for me as far as ever playing dirt races again.


Good Luck,
Joe B.


 

[Michael D.]

although guys, if this stuff does hold its form in bad weather, it might be wise for the ny tracks to put it down on the inner ovals.

look at the turf race that was just rained off at Kee (8th race feature, 100k stks). instead of a four horse field over a sloppy track, we have a solid nine horse field over the \"fast\" poly.

think about how many turf races at the spa are decimated because of rain.

[miff]

Mike D,

Rained off the grass is a small price to pay compared to running on this poly surface that no one has a real clue about from a handicapping standpoint.Some of the poly results at Kee defy any logic and I\'m talking about stake type runners.


Mike

[flushedstraight]

Over time the thoro numbers will help clear up the poly world. Give it time. No realistic conclusions can be made based on this Kee meet. This is just the beginning of the transition period.