Travers

[colin]

Plus I don\'t see such big number power in his favor and a bad trip/small bounce could lead to a defeat. I am skipping myself but I am hoping for a Bernadini win as it\'s been a bad week for good horses (like Saint Liam and Lost in the Fog) Seems like racing could use a new star E

[marcus]

I\'m thinking Bernardini\'s bouncing next - granted the level of abillity is established w/ the pair  , but off a somewhat fragile line .  
 
Henny Huges is another story - she looks ready to pair-up now .  

Either way - defintely get that beer . Think Grolcsh ! ! !

[RICH]

Marcus

HH hasn\'t won past 6f, his #\'s outside of 6f aren\'t so great, he faces some early pressure, comes off a VERY big top, and I think off surgery(?). I am using lweis michael off a real nice line and a Superhot trainer. I love that type of line which often leads to the next move.

Good Luck

[marcus]

Rich - That one\'s  interesting too - alot like Blue Grass\'s pattern  in the travers , could easily be a  mid/Lt -season move coming ... good luck
 
More than that last one is Henny\'s 2 yo #\'s that really drew me in . Court Folly might continue forging too - there\'s alot going on in that race for HH to deal with  but it should a classic ...

[milwmike]

I believe Lewis Michael is going to scratch in favor of the St. Louis Derby tomorrow.

[Chuckles_the_Clown2]

Really not sure I\'ll be favoring Henny Hughes, but what was it about that Champagne and Breeders Cup Juvenile to influence you to believe six furlongs is within Henny Hughes scope but seven furlongs is beyond it?

RICH Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Marcus
>
> HH hasn\'t won past 6f, his #\'s outside of 6f
> aren\'t so great, he faces some early pressure,
> comes off a VERY big top, and I think off
> surgery(?). I am using lweis michael off a real
> nice line and a Superhot trainer. I love that type
> of line which often leads to the next move.
>
> Good Luck

[Michael D.]

JR did make it fun to watch with the run, but he was on a much lesser horse.

from the brilliant one paced withers run, to one of the fastest stretch finishes in the history of the preakness (third fastest finishing kick i think), to the gallop in the jim dandy with the durkin \"LIKE A STATUE!!\" call .... it\'s been fun watching one of the greatest thoroughbreds of all-time.

[Silver Charm]

>it\'s been fun watching one of the greatest thoroughbreds of all time.

Seems like we have about one of those a year now.

See:

Mineshaft
Ghostzapper
Saint Liam

[gowand]

Let\'s not get crazy here.  Let him beat something of substance before we put him in that category.  Unfortunately, it looks like his best competition before retirement will be Lava Man.  Not exactly Seattle Slew v. Affirmed.  Most likely he will never carry significant weight and will certainly never face any quality horses his age.  Is he really any better than say, Point Given.

[curly]

Lets not get too crazy here guys... Ghostzapper ran negative 6s!  and he beat horses in the same race running negative 3\'s to negative 6s (saint liam).. which was amazing... Bernardini is a great horse but hasnt ran vs. any quality...  the preakness he came in the second fastest... jim dandy he much the fastest and yesterday other then bg cat being 2 points slower and in form..the rest of the field was garbage.. i would say hes one of the best 3 yos ever but lets see what he does vs faster/older horses

[Michael D.]

thanks for the input guys.

i always love the \"greatest\" discussions. i\'m usually the one calling somebody else crazy for putting a horse in that category.

i thought bernardini was something special after his maiden win at GP.

i thought he was great after his withers win.

i thought he had the talent to be one of the best ever after his preakness win.

after his jim dandy and travers runs, i make him one of the best ever.


just one guy\'s opinion, and i don\'t expect any strong following until he wins a few more, but ...

you can\'t make money taking a strong stand on a horse after his career is over. right?

[Chuckles_the_Clown2]

gowand Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Let\'s not get crazy here.  Let him beat something
> of substance before we put him in that category.
> Unfortunately, it looks like his best competition
> before retirement will be Lava Man.  Not exactly
> Seattle Slew v. Affirmed.  Most likely he will
> never carry significant weight and will certainly
> never face any quality horses his age.  Is he
> really any better than say, Point Given.

Point Given ran all the races. He\'s not in Point Given\'s class. At least not yet. Point Given danced all the Triple Dances, won the Preakness, Belmont, Haskell and Travers. Anyone really think this one has accomplished all that?

I measure greatness by speed. If folks want to think Bluegrass Cat paired up with a \"Negative\" 1 that puts Bernardini in the Negative 4 range. Thats fast, but he didn\'t go that fast. All you have to do is note the times on the day and factor how unlikely it would be for the others in the race to equal or exceed tops at the novel distance and with the trouble they faced.

A good horse yes. A great one? most certainly not yet. He was a nice cash in the Preakness, he has been valueless and the most advantageously placed since. Lets see him square up with the handicap ranks and win by open lengths before we get all gushy.

He still has a lot to prove and when the timing is right the bettors will be there saying...ok now prove it. Hopefully the impressionable will back him down to Travers odds.

[Silver Charm]

>i would say hes one of the best 3 yos ever but lets see what he does vs faster/older horses

We have about one of those a year now also.

See:

Point Given
Smarty Jones
Afleet Alex

We also know how those three did against Older.......

[Chuckles_the_Clown2]

Silver Charm Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> >i would say hes one of the best 3 yos ever but
> lets see what he does vs faster/older horses
>
> We have about one of those a year now also.
>
> See:
>
> Point Given
> Smarty Jones
> Afleet Alex
>
> We also know how those three did against
> Older.......

Excellent point Silver. It takes a special 3YO to dominate his elders. Obviously, none of those 3 did. Horses that come to mind are Easy Goer and Affirmed.

Just learned Bluegrass Cat was retired. Apparently injured in the Travers. How greatly it impacted his performance is guesswork. Personally, I think some of these horses run through it without feeling it. But don\'t think that was Bluegrass Cats best race. There just wasnt enough quality in the race and that which was there wasn\'t prepared to run a lick.

Albertani is apparently hedging already:

\" He just seems like he\'s getting better and better every time he runs. I think he stacks up pretty well with the older horses.\"

Albertrani said that regardless of what happens in the fall, Bernardini should be strongly considered for the 3-year-old championship over Kentucky Derby winner Barbaro, who was injured in the Preakness\"

http://www.drf.com/news/article/78010.html

Agree he should be concerned about the fall, but also agree he\'s unseated Barbaro, but I\'m just as certain the goofy writers dont see that yet.

[curly]

I really think that we have a LOT of horses each year that are superstars but they get run into the ground because of improper rest...  look at someone like Bellamy Road..the horse ran out of his mind (negative 5 or so) last year then ran like 30 days later in the derby.... same thing this year with bafferts horse Sinister Minister...  that horse ran a neg 4.5... If any of these horses had at least 3 months rest i guarantee they come back to another number pretty close to what they ran and those numbers beat a horse like Bernardini... Bernardini has had the rest needed to keep improving..   I guarantee if Baffert trained Bernardini and won the preakness, he wouldve brought him out for the belmont stakes and destroyed the horses future..or maybe its just the owners who knows but the fact is that these horses need rest and its obvious they are not getting it after these monster numbers