Fresh Horses

[Chuckles_the_Clown2]

Heres the latest from Greg Gilcrist. Its starting to become apparent why he doesnt have any Breeders Cup victories nor any Triple Crown experience.

First a correction. Foggy apparently has beaten his elders in the Bay Meadows Sprint Handicap. Someone misspoke.

Anyway, Gilcrist says Foggy was a tired horse last year and that you can\'t \"pile up\" seven or eight races leading into the Breeders Cup. He says if you do, you will have a tired horse.

Well, here we are in June and Gilcrist has one losing effort in Foggy. If he runs him once every two months he\'ll have about 4 starts heading into the B.C.Sprint.

Seven or Eight races leading into the last start of the year is a lot of races? If it is, you just don\'t have enough horse Mr. Gilcrist. Or enough trainer.

These guys are getting ridiculous. Time to put the handicapping hat on and put this Foggy in his place. P.S. they didn\'t deserve it last year but 4 starts will not get a repeat of that bogus Champion Sprinter award:

\"The main thing is not to have seven or eight races piled up if you are going to make it to the Breeders\' Cup,\" said Gilchrist. \"I think we went in (with) more of a tired horse last year than we did a fresh horse, so we\'re trying to avoid that.\"

by the way Greg, you went in with a decidedly inferior horse.

http://racing.bloodhorse.com/viewstory.asp?id=33821

[P-Dub]

Chuckles,

You are really something else. You failed to mention the multiple cross country trips this horse had,  racing on several different tracks.  The travel may have something to do with LITF possibly being over the top last year.

You also conveniently forget to mention Soviet Problem,  who had an excellent campaign in I believe 1994 or around there.  Lost the BC Sprint by about a neck to Cherokee Run.  I guess being beaten by a nose or so while leading for most of the race is the same as being up the track by 15 lengths.  

Yes he is 0-1 this year.  Came back off a layoff and lost to a track lover at GGF. Apparently didn\'t handle the track that day but who really knows.

Why don\'t you let this horse race a few more times before you start in with your nonsense? Did Watchmaker enjoy the pastries you served him this morning??

[Chuckles_the_Clown2]

P-Dub Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Chuckles,
>
> You are really something else. You failed to
> mention the multiple cross country trips this
> horse had,  racing on several different tracks.
> The travel may have something to do with LITF
> possibly being over the top last year.
>
> You also conveniently forget to mention Soviet
> Problem,  who had an excellent campaign in I
> believe 1994 or around there.  Lost the BC Sprint
> by about a neck to Cherokee Run.  I guess being
> beaten by a nose or so while leading for most of
> the race is the same as being up the track by 15
> lengths.  
>
> Yes he is 0-1 this year.  Came back off a layoff
> and lost to a track lover at GGF. Apparently
> didn\'t handle the track that day but who really
> knows.
>
> Why don\'t you let this horse race a few more times
> before you start in with your nonsense? Did
> Watchmaker enjoy the pastries you served him this
> morning??
>
> P-Dub

Watchmaker ranks him well down too. Not sure who reached the conclusion first that Foggy was vastly overrated, but its not like the top of Mt. Everest or getting to the North Pole. Who\'s first isn\'t as important. Whats important is reaching the conclusion on race day.

Soviet Problem was a nice filly if memory serves. Cherokee Run was a nicer colt though.

Foggy did ship around last year, but he shipped into weak 3YO sprint races. He faced one legitimate horse in Egghead. Granted he did beat him, but he won using his preferred running style. As far as Foggy being \"over the top\" for the B.C. Sprint, Gilchrist and others are free to interpret the loss for themselves. Some think he lacks the fire in the belly unless he gets it his own way and that loss to Carthage was another loss against a horse he couldn\'t outquick. Will he outquick them today at perhaps Odds On? Guess we\'ll see.

[davidrex]

Please stop the venom you disperse when criticizing people.
Your ideas are always a wlcome sight,but your out-right attacks on well meaning folks working at their usual capabilities is down right childish.
You seem to have taken a very critical posture of this industry prior to the Derby and have been unable to disengage from your rants.
This type of written behavior only dilutes the ideas and theories you try to espouse.
I still enjoy your thoughts,but certainly not at this level.

[dravila]

as a horse owner how can anyone disrespect the job gilchrest has done, and the money he has made for harry. I  would love to be on that train

[Barry Irwin]

Dravila: ditto

[Chuckles_the_Clown2]

Actually the Lost in the Fog, Gilcrist train kept to their schedule yesterday, even if stopping at a backwater station. The horse ran a respectable race. Waiting just a little and that was the difference. Still, the complexion of the race was altered with the scratch of Yes, Yes, Yes and those were not the A League sprinters and Foggy was all out to defeat them.

He will not be beating the best. Especially, if he picks up secondary scrap races the rest of the year and tries for one big win in the Breeders Cup. (Essentially the modus operandi last year)

Gilcrist, do yourself a favor. Enter the horse in some Grade I\'s, train him up well to them, and earn the laurels the honest way. If you can. Theres no shame in aiming for the top and falling short. This secondary schedule is not becoming for a Sprint Champion.

lol

[miff]

Chuck,

Managing \"spots\" is also part of a trainers job(todays big stable phenom is the so called Racing Manger). I\'d run him against Clydesdales for a good purse and why not as long as LITF shows up at some of the main dances.The idea is to win MONEY and awards. Agree his performance was ordinary yesterday.


Mike

[NoCarolinaTony]

CtC

You never have a good word to say about anything. The horse ran a good race against who ever showed up to run. I doubt he would have scratched out if Yes Yes Yes ran in the race, and we know why Y Y Y scratched. If you owned LITF you would not be disappointed with the money earned or the management of the horse.

Add something about handicapping sheets, or your pedigree analysis versus citicism of trainers,jockeys,owners (which seems to be all you get into). Do you even buy sheets or do you just look at them on the red board?

NC Tony

[Chuckles_the_Clown2]

NoCarolinaTony Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> CtC
>
> You never have a good word to say about anything.
> The horse ran a good race against who ever showed
> up to run. I doubt he would have scratched out if
> Yes Yes Yes ran in the race, and we know why Y Y Y
> scratched. If you owned LITF you would not be
> disappointed with the money earned or the
> management of the horse.

I don\'t have a good word to say about Odds On horses that run marginally better than weak competition. Lost in the Fog is not a good horse. He is a useful one. But they draped the Champion Sprinter ribbon around him and thats what irks me, so there won\'t be good things to say about that horse unless he truly steps up. Its June of his Four Year Old year, who expects him to?

>
> Add something about handicapping sheets, or your
> pedigree analysis versus citicism of
> trainers,jockeys,owners (which seems to be all you
> get into). Do you even buy sheets or do you just
> look at them on the red board?

Passed that race with Yes, Yes, Yes opting out for whatever reason. Sheets are important but are only a consideration. Maybe the most important consideration, but having learned long ago that sheets, figures, numbers, whatever you want to call them are only a piece of the puzzle, who is going to belabor them? I look at sheets, especially redboard here early in the year getting a handle on developing three year olds. Certainly don\'t have to look at the sheet of Lost in the Fog at this point to know he is a six furlong front end specialist that can run a decent race if the fractions don\'t get above his head.

He beat very little yesterday and didn\'t look very good doing it. Unless you think Kelly\'s Landing ran up to last years Aristides. It just wasnt the time to wager against. Granted he carried more weight, but that is factored.  Not really interested in talking about the time on that race which is very difficult to ascertain by the poor quality card and results. Joint Effort\'s race excepted.

When he runs in races like the Carter and Forego and DeFrancis Dash we can discuss his great victories, until then hes been the favorite in every single one of his carefully managed races and he should be a target for every knowledgeable handicapper.

Still, its aggravating for a decent horse to be popularly acclaimed as a great one. Maybe we should just bide our time and put up with another \"managed\" winning streak until the time when they enter him with the heavy heads again.


We\'ll beat him good then and dance another victory jig, with toasts of English Stout to our good fortune, upon his exhausted carcass.

To cash well you have to have horse enemies. Lost in the Fog is an enemy of the big cash. Just as Barbaro was.

Show no mercy to the horse enemies.

[P-Dub]

You really need to get a life dude.

After Jerry scolded you.  you went about a week posting some useful comments. We all figured that wouldn\'t last long.

Why were your feelings so hurt about the Eclipse anyways?? Did that impact your life in such a way that you can\'t quit rambling on about it??  Please...don\'t give us a Led Zeppelin song with more of your made up lame lyrics.

[NoCarolinaTony]

Ctc,

I cashed on Barbaro Had $200 Win in Derby plus had Keyed $20 Exacta Barbaro over BGC, Dep Glit, Jazil, & Stepenwolfer....I missed the supper because Stepenwolfer got 3rd over Jazil.....So at 6-1 I\'ll take my chalky Barbaro... You are just sic because you got it wrong. Get over it dude. I have the cash under my mattress to use at the SPA...lol

NC Tony

[Chuckles_the_Clown2]

NoCarolinaTony Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Ctc,
>
> I cashed on Barbaro Had $200 Win in Derby plus had
> Keyed $20 Exacta Barbaro over BGC, Dep Glit,
> Jazil, & Stepenwolfer....I missed the supper
> because Stepenwolfer got 3rd over Jazil.....So at
> 6-1 I\'ll take my chalky Barbaro... You are just
> sic because you got it wrong. Get over it dude. I
> have the cash under my mattress to use at the
> SPA...lol
>
> NC Tony

Barbaro was a jump up Derby horse that didn\'t make sense at 6-1, although some did use him lighty. Its always better to cash than to be right so congrats.

Where he became real vulnerable was at 1-2 in the Preakness and if you didn\'t bet him there hats off to your acumen.

Bet against Barbaro in the Florida Derby, essentially in the Kentucky Derby and bet against him with conviction in the Preakness. Each time with an undefeated record and a growing public reputation. Its always good to beat the horse enemy of the Big Cash. The IRS was a satisfied customer.

Lost in the Fog has a bullseye on his back again. Not sure we are talking about the same thing.

[richiebee]

Mr. Clownspector:

    For the record (and check the record) I thought LITF was an undeserving Eclipse Award winning sprinter last year. That being said, I am still very impressed with his consistency (he\'s fired in every one of his races) and he has now won 11 races at 9 different tracks. In the old days he would eventually have to carry the track on his back, but racing has gotten away from handicaps it seems.

    Your contention that short priced champion caliber horses are the bettor\'s enemy is slightly anachronistic. I would agree with you 100% in olden days when the wagering menu was limited to straight WPS, double and exacta wagering. With the advent of multiple race wagers, there is a way to deploy these \"locks\" who seemingly have a 40- 50% chance of winning. The all stakes P4 at CD (second fave, co fave, LITF, and $30 winner of the last race) paid over $900

[miff]

Richiebee said:

\"Your contention that short priced champion caliber horses are the bettor\'s enemy is slightly anachronistic. I would agree with you 100% in olden days when the wagering menu was limited to straight WPS, double and exacta wagering. With the advent of multiple race wagers, there is a way to deploy these \"locks\" who seemingly have a 40- 50% chance of winning. The all stakes P4 at CD (second fave, co fave, LITF, and $30 winner of the last race) paid over $900\"


Rich,

I could not agree more. I can\'t count the odds on horses that have \"bridged\" me to good scores in multi race wagers.Incidentally, the $30 winner in the last at CD on Sat was the TG selection(knocked me out)

Mike