Andy Beyer on Triple Crown Spacing

[Uncle Buck]

I noticed Beyer changed Bernardini\'s Preakness BSF from 117 down to 113 and put SNS\'s from 109 to 105...

[imallin]

Yeah, like Tim Richey.

Where\'s Afleet alex now? He broke down.

What if he falls on his face from Scrappy T?

Sure, there will be winners, then there will be horses who never race again.

I agree with you about owner driven stuff. Owners, for the most part, are egomaniacs with money and no clue about racing.

Thats why i proposed to vet-out horses AFTER the derby to see if they are ok to run 2 weeks later. Independent vet service, maybe 2 to get second opinions because owners are not responsible enough with their entries. I agree there.

Like until the Breeders Cup, thats going to have to be long enough. We aren\'t going to get these horses back at 4 no matter what if they have breeding value, but we can see them in october at least.

[imallin]

Good post, all true.

[davidrex]

In a system that puts so much stallion credibility to races won by 2 and 3yr. olds,its no wonder the good early horses all break down.
Don\'t expect any T.C. change until the breeders cup starts getting more recognition from the 18-35 yr.olds that know less about a triple crown with each passing year.
The winner of 2yr.old breeder cup is never even sound enough(forget about good enough)to participate in the spring lead-up races much less the T.C.
Ten years from now (hopefully)the breeders Cup will be recognized as the gold standard for the breed.Then you might see a jockeying of positionas far as timing,etc. is concerned.YUM!
 

[NoCarolinaTony]

So Again  for clarity- you know for certain that Andy Beyer is on the take? He\'s a schill for the industry?

TGJB you are losing control of this boards integrity.

NC Tony

[NoCarolinaTony]

Maybe one idea for the BC is to replace the two two year old races with any of the follwoing:

1) 5 furlong Turf Sprint
2) One Mile on the Dirt
3) 6F Filly and Mare Sprint

Let the young horses develop and not tax them so soon. That would be one recommendation anyway to change the landscape.

NC Tony

[NoCarolinaTony]

Or better yet:

Have a  BC Race for 3Yo\'s only @ 10F one for colts and one Mile and 1/8 for Fillies. This way if the TC series is too early for some 3 yo\'s you might find this as a reasonable NEW 3 YO Classic.

Also the purse should be less than the Classic itself but allowing any 3YO to still enter as the Classic Purse will always be higher and more prestigous.

Again just food for thought.



NC Tony

[alm]

CTC

The best horse I ever bred came from a mare who never raced after cracking a sesamoid in a workout.  He won at all distances up to ten furlongs and was a state champion, winning 12 out of 20 races.  She went on to produce additional multiple stakes winners.

The second best horse I ever bred came from a mare who cracked a condylar in her third start.  Her best foal is still running and is graded stakes placed...the first in her family in three generations.

There are no simple ways to determine the outcome of a breeding or the effectiveness of a stallion or mare.  There are no generalities.

If Barbaro is able to breed it will all depend upon the types of mares brought to him and the outcomes of myriad gene combinations that will occur.

The only way to strengthen the thoroughbred breed after 300 years of inbreeding is through the introduction of new strains, which will NEVER happen.  So this business is pretty much stuck in the place it is in.

[gambler]

>So Again for clarity- you know for certain that Andy Beyer is on the take? He\'s a schill for the industry?

He knows where his bread is buttered, and isn\'t about to do or write anything which will rock the industry that his paycheck and gambling activities depends on.

Just like everyone else in the media who kisses up to the government line and supports a liar like George W Bush because they\'re scared to lose the access that their news business depends on.

[NoCarolinaTony]

So Again- You paint everyone with a broad brush.

NC Tony

[gambler]

If the brush fits...

You and everyone else are being lied to on a daily basis by a corporate-owned media with interests to protect which are not necessarily your interests. They know that all they have to do is feed their swill to a beer-drinking TV-watching uneducated ignorant mouth-breathing knuckle-dragging moronic American Idol worshipping public. If they see it on TV or the newspaper they\'ll believe anything without question. Wasn\'t it just last week that Beyer was proclaiming Barbaro as a certain triple crown winner, in order to hype up the Preakness and the racing industry?

[gambler]

So you want me censored and kicked off this forum because I expressed an opinion that disagreed with yours? How republican of you. Maybe you can get them to tap my phone to make sure I\'m not a commie, a terra-ist sympathizer or (god forbid) anti-andrew Beyer.

[Chuckles_the_Clown2]

gambler Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> If the brush fits...
>
> You and everyone else are being lied to on a daily
> basis by a corporate-owned media with interests to
> protect which are not necessarily your interests.
> They know that all they have to do is feed their
> swill to a beer-drinking TV-watching uneducated
> ignorant mouth-breathing knuckle-dragging moronic
> American Idol worshipping public. If they see it
> on TV or the newspaper they\'ll believe anything
> without question. Wasn\'t it just last week that
> Beyer was proclaiming Barbaro as a certain triple
> crown winner, in order to hype up the Preakness
> and the racing industry?

Interesting posts Gambler. Have to agree that American racing is in trouble. Taking the wrong action could wound it more. Your commentary upon Kelso running 2 miles under 130 made my heart palpitate. Thats precisely where the industry needs to go to get well.

Andy Beyer certainly speaks carefully to protect his interests. There may be a little more to his proclamations though. You have to remember he picked A.P. Warrior in the Derby. Its like that every year with him. He selects no chance horses. Beyer just got overly enamored with Barbaro\'s open daylight win is all. It never occurs to him that fractions, wide and path variation can impact beaten lengths. Hes all about final adjusted time is all and he completely dismisses Regression. Adjusted speed figures are his gig and he makes some errors off it.

The issue thats important to emphasize is that the time between races theory, isn\'t so much to get horses through the Triple Crown as to get Top Efforts out of them. The theory is more time to recuperate and toss a really big effort to take down a big race. Winning the big race in really fast time is more important in this theory than racing a horse into form. The \"time off\" folks think \"Why waste a race...lets point our horse for big winning efforts.\" They really are not concerned with using races to build foundation and thats the issue with them. To a great extent Tgraph is responsible for this notion and personally its my belief they have had an insidious effect on the breed with it. Running big but running abbreviated careers. Quite a few of the big trainers have latched onto this modus operandi. All you have to do is look at the Preakness skippers coming back. These are the guys that are helping weaken the breed.

we can elaborate upon this later, but the best horses are still the horses with the constitution and foundation to run often and come back quickly. Those are the horses you want to lead the breed into the coming generations. A bona fide Triple Crown winner or one that came close is the way to go. You don\'t want to breed to faint hearted horses nursed along until they Rice Krispy. Snap, Crackle, Pop

[SJU5]

Getting back to the issue of spacing out the TC races:

Would it not keep fan interest longer if we do space things out and allow for the BEST to get proper rest and training?

I\'m all for the Derby where it is...you can scrap Pimlico...keep Belmont as Jewel #2 either on the present date or move it back in the Belmont meet...and then either the Travers in late July or early Aug. I\'m sure the non-NYRA crowd would complain that NY gets 2 stakes but heck...can Santa Anita or DelMar enter the picture and offer another type race in July? That would leave 7 weeks to Breeders Cup and you can also play with that date...I\'m sick and tired of freezing my ass off at Belmont in late fall with NO heat in the clubhouse!!!

[marcus]

tony - your making some excellent points  . the idea of restricting 2 yo\'s from the the bc is interestng . how about all other 2 yo stk races ?
as you\'ve pointed out on this thread , beyer has been a good friend to racing - he should be respected ( on the tg board ) ...