What to do with POLI-TRACK ??

[darkstar53]

I\'d love to hear any opinions on how poli-track numbers should be viewed.  Several more tracks will have it down by this Fall.  Do we now have 3 distinct surfaces rather than 2 (dirt and turf)?  Or do we take at face value reports that suggest turf and poli horses fall into 1 group and dirt into the other?  It seemed to me that a lot of horses reversed form (both ways) at Turfway last fall.  I\'m stumped.  Any chance that TG could look at some numbers and draw any conclusions?  

[TGJB]

My take on this so far is that there are now 3 different surfaces, with some overlap. It\'s going to be tricky.

[tmon]

The British have a number of Poli-Track course. If you look at the numbers things are still are hard to figure out because the best horses are still mainly running on grass.

[asfufh]

>>>.I\'d love to hear any opinions on how poli-track numbers should be viewed.<<<

With a surgical mask

[tmcdevitt]

I think it\'s safe to say that no place that has Polytrack has had the quality of horses racing on it that you will see at KEE in the fall. I\'ve already got it on my calendar as the best 3 weeks of betting the rest of the year. Full fields, new track, ridiculous KEE bias a thing of the past (hopefully), and nobody knows how it will play. Thats the definition of opportunity

[Mall]

Based on what I\'ve seen & heard, I\'m not sure that it makes sense to assume that all polytrack surfaces will be the same, and/or that a particular polytrack surface will remain the same over time. The Kee training track is noticeably different(much tighter) now than when it was 1st installed a couple of yrs ago, and a Kee exec who should know advises that there will be differences between the one which they are installing & the one at TP. Also, there has been a lot of talk among trainers & others that the one at TP received a geat deal more \"maintenance\" than it should have during the recently concluded meet.  

[jmetro]

tmcdevitt,
After Turfway Park put in the polytrack I thought the same thing, it only took me a couple of nights of playing the carpet fiber to find there was not much oppurtunity there.  Hope your results are better.

Polytrack should negate the Keeneland bias, but it takes away the advantages of the above average horseplayer as well.

[darkstar53]

Now I\'m really depressed

[richiebee]

Gee, maybe they can put a dome over Keeneland so us poor handicappers dont ever have to handicap on anything but a firm turf! This falls right in line with visionary Frank Stronach\'s \"indoorization\" of racing.

Opportunity? How about recognizing a bias, and knowing when to quit going to the well on bias driven bets? Opportunity lost on Polyestertrack.

Opportunity? How about taking advantage of subjective knowledge or memory of bloodlines which relish off tracks? Opportunity lost on Polyestertrack.

Ive said it many times-- train on \"safer\" synthetic surfaces, but continue to race on a dirt track. When you eliminate wet, moist, muddy, sloppy and heavy tracks,when you eliminate track \"bias\", you\'ve eliminated some of the intrigue of handicapping.

[tmcdevitt]

Thats discouraging, but over the last year I had basically stopped playing dirt races at KEE. Just too Fluky. I\'m disappointed they never tried to fix the dirt surface in a conventional way, but I\'m inclined to believe anything is better

[davidrex]

Thirty years ago the geeky sheet players were the devil of horse racing;at the very least a popular excuse for having a winner that made no sense to d.r.f. readers
Twenty five years ago trip hanicapping ,brought on by harness guys, made their mark against the beyer boys.
Twenty years ago the quarter-horse trainer took speed to a new dimension by extending the distance a sprinter could go.(Lukas-Baffert)
Ten years ago the offspring of quarter horse trainers(pletcher)and a claiming class trainer(Frankel-Dutrow)tightened everything up by not giving into the \"old shool way\" of doing things.
In the last 10 years the sport has(somehow) survived otb,simulcast,off-shore rebates,batch wagering,betting AFTER start of race.
Think a little asbestos smothered in rubber is going to stop us \"in our tracks?\"

[richiebee]

D-Rex:

   One of your more lucid posts. I guess your point is that since Racing\'s core fan base is composed primarily of compulsive gamblers (for whom not playing is not an option), changes for the better or for the worse will be tolerated.

  Polytrack is the by-product of a) a new generation of trainers unable to keep horses sound; b) the fact that track supers who can maintain a safe and consistent racing surface are few and far between; and c)race track operators\' desire to save money on track maintenance.

  Maybe I am wrong. Maybe racing over a surface composed of coated ground up tires and brassieres is going to attract new fans. Or maybe racing is continuing down the road to being a sideshow for bored casino patrons.

[miff]

Polytrack may be a disaster for any long time handicapper who follows bias, horse for course, and a host of other angles.The sum total will take AWAY many perceived edges now enjoyed by many close followers.

It\'s informal right now but I am with a group of bettors(some whales)who will not make any wagers on any poly track surface until it is very apparent as to exactly what is going on.

The hypocrites that run racetracks only need to get a firm handle on the drug situation to reduce breakdowns. Horses injected with super pain meds and blood dope will run right through almost any pain and tear themselves up more or breakdown.Eliminate drugs and the surface will be much less of an issue if properly maintained.

Mike

[Michael D.]

poly resembles turf more than dirt in my opinion. some trainers say the horses need more bottom to get a distance of ground over the poly.

get a few more down, including one in ny and cal, and the sharp handicappers might figure out how to use it to their advantage, especially if mall\'s post is on the mark (they always are).

i\'d prefer turf and dirt remain the norm however. put poly everywhere and the game will be ruined.


...............

dave,

those quarter horse guys really did change everything, didn\'t they?

 

[davidrex]

All true, Richie.But where else does one get such a thrill from any other event?Jeff Siegel is the kind of guy I\'d like to spend time with at the track.Compulsive gamblers aisde,the thrill of the chase(catching a winner)is what bonds me to this mind game.
Play all the Party Poker I can digest(the \"take is 8-10%), but its like making love with protection on.
Show me the hind parts of a thoroughbred....sorry Jerry.