TGJB/Byron King/Polytrack

[dutrowfan]

Jerry Byron King wrote an article in which he tried to rationalize that Polytrack does not favor turf horses.
I think the guy is an imbecile of the highest order to be honest with you.  Any novice can clearly see that turf horses who couldn\'t run a lick on dirt are now running very well on Polytrack.  Do you have any stats yet to support this?
I think the whole Polytrack thing is going to be disastrous in implemented all across the US.  Horses were wild for thousands of years and ran around on turf or dirt, not polytrack.  Its an unnatural surface.  Last week Turfway cancelled a card due to snow and it made me laugh.  They said it would avoid track cancellations and I found this also to be incredibly stupid.  There isn\'t anything in polytrack thats gonna melt snow.  
I\'m hoping this whole Polytrack thing turns out to be a fad like the hula hoop.

[dlf]

Dutrowfan: Do you think that a horse running 3/4 of a mile at a full-out sprint with a 120 LB man strapped to his back is \"natural\" as long as it\'s on dirt or turf?

[TGJB]

Dut-- haven\'t done anything resembling a study, but anecdotally the grass horses have run to their numbers much more often than they would on regular dirt.

How often do they run to their numbers typically?

[bobphilo]

You're right about turf racing being the closest to what horses evolved to run on, but as far as dirt – any resemblance between a dirt track and the natural earth surface that was there before is purely coincidental. Dirt tracks are used because they can stand up to much more racing than grass and are easier to maintain.
As far as poly-track – anything that can give a uniform surface and is kinder to the horses' legs and reduces injuries is OK by me.

Bob

[marcus]

That does sound good - ergomatic . Watching the TPX Poly Track , it\'s looks like the TPX racing surface has more spring or bounce in it than some Turf Course\'s ( guessing that\'s the energy return / impact resistance Jerry has talked about  ) . I\'m waiting to see if the track surface is so forgiving that when my horse blows a lead change in the stretch , I still win ...  

[NoCarolinaTony]

Have you also noticed when a horse doesn\'t take to the surface they just don\'t run a lick at all. They just run in the back of the pack way off the rest, almost to the point of sulking. Also one other issue during the last meet was the kick back to the jockey, of fine particulate into their lungs caused some breathing issues (both nose and mouth) and the jocks resorted to wearing a  medical face mask. Don\'t know if this has been addressed going into this meet but I sure wouldn\'t like fine rubber particles accumulating in my lungs day after day. Human or Horse. Ever hear of silacosis?

NC Tony

[bobphilo]

Tony,

Silicisis is caused by years of exposure to microscopic crystals of silica, which is what coal miners are exposed to. I doubt that it would be a component of the poly-track. if there is sanything microscopic enough to get into the horses\' or jockeys\' alveoli in the lungs, it\'s miost likely something that is also present in the dirt of regular tracks. The rubberized bits they put into poly-track are too big to get into the lungs.

Bob

[marcus]

Thats pretty serious  , I wasn\'t aware of the surgical mask stuff ...

[dutrowfan]

NC Tony you have hit upon exactly what i am talking about.  When horses don\'t fire on that surface they don\'t even give you a 1/2 mile of run.  They sulk(as you put it) and just give up immediately.  To me this indicates that this is NOT a surface this as closely related to a real dirt track as they would have you believe(the makers and marketers of the surface).  I see horses in great form who make the switch to the Turfway track and just flat out do not run.  
I find it hard to believe that places like CD and NYRA(whatever it becomes) will ever switch to this surface.  
When I watched Stream Cat and Beau dare(?) win those two year old stakes races this past fall I knew this was gonna be trouble.  Neither one of them has duplicated those efforts before or since on real dirt tracks yet both look great on turf.  I know thats a very limited sample of one day but I see the races setting up very strangely there.  I\'m seeing horses who have always shown speed simply not firing out and as a result you get races where a speed duel looks like a big possibility and it turns out to be a parade with a single file lineup.   Horses win and lose, horses run good and bad races.  This we know.  But to me the biggest indicator I ever got that a horse wasn\'t grabbing a particular surface was when they failed to show their usual speed out of the gate.  I see this happening constantly and there is no way that anyone is gonna convince me that many, many horses are not taking to this surface whatsoever. I\'m also not convinced that this surface by itself is gonna avoid breakdowns to the extent that they claim it will.  

[escovedo]

dutrowfan,

Yeah the great Churchill Downs where my horse has been walking under tack for seven days while our horses at Turfway have missed one day of training total.

To my knowledge Turfway cancelled that one night because of road conditions.

Polytrack is a much kinder surface.  Fewer vet bills, etc.  I was told that the outriders at TP said there has not been one catastrophic breakdown since the track opened for training August 2, 2005.  

es

[NoCarolinaTony]

Bob,

Silica is a component of polytrack. I sell &  manufacture silica particles. I am quite aware of govt regulations of nanoparticulate in humans. Not only does polytrack have silica but it also has synthetic fibers from from oil based products. In nano form broken down they get into your body in microscopic form and \"could\" cause injuries.

Look back at the Sept racing  towards the end of the meet at TP and you will notice jockeys wearing masks. All I can say is that with that in mind it must have some type of breakdown of the fibers and kickback somehow gets into the lungs via nose mouth. Don\'t know the health risks for certain but based upon my knowledge of this type of chemistry I wouldn\'t want it in my lungs.


http://www.polytrack.com/general.html
http://www.polytrack.com/different.html
http://www.polytrack.com/qa.html

NC Tony

[bobphilo]

Tony,

 I\'ll look into whether the silica is used in the microscopic crystyline form that can enter the alveoli.

Bob

[bobphilo]

Tony,

I understand your concern with anything containing pure silica crystals.
Silica is a component of sand and would be a significant part of all sand containing tracks (think Big Sandy, Belmont) the silica in polytrack is wax-coated, which I suspect would make it no more dangerous than running on the beach, if not safer. This is not the same as the the pure uncoated silica crystals that miners are exposed to. What we\'re talking about here is a coated coumpond that contains silica compound, like beach sand.
The fact that some jockeys are wearing masks could well be an irratioanal reaction to an unfounded rumor. The same logic would have them wearing masks every time they go to the beach.
I will continue to look for any evidence that any compenent or compound, as it exists in polytrack, that can cause any lung damage.

Bob

[richiebee]

What racing purist couldn\'t love Turfway?

Night racing over an artificial surface. Who could ask for anything more?

Once again I will trot out one of my favorite sports quotes ever. Tug McGraw was asked whether he liked pitching better on natural grass or Astroturf. His reply: \"I don\'t know. I never smoked Astroturf.\"