Mitchell goes into the D-Barn...

[richiebee]

Asfuth:

   There is no question that the ways to discourage an animal from running his/her best race are numerous. The most obvious is for the jockey to \"take a good hold\" of an animal during a race, just as effective is \"sending\" a horse who has no inclination to run early. The result will be the same.

   The jockey\'s involvement is not necessary. Horses are usually given limited access to drinking water on race day. Too much water, animal probably won\'t perform properly. Rather simple. Horse A has won 2 straight races using a shadow roll and a \"d\" bit; all of sudden A shows up in the paddock with a plain nose band and a \"ring\" bit. Horseplayers are not privy to these subtle equipment changes unless they are keeping a paddock book the way I\'m sure all the sharp claiming trainers do, the way Leatherbury and Alfano and Dutrow Sr used to do in Maryland.

   Other ways to assure poor performance: Enter your horse in a race he doesn\'t have a chance to win. Wrong surface, wrong distance. Or you can run your horse in a race he is not prepared properly for. Case in point: Did anyone else think that Galloping Grocer had NO chance of winning a 9 furlong stake off a 10 week layoff with only a half mile turf work and a 3 furlong breeze? As long as there are bettors who will drive an animal like this down to 6/5, I will have my chances to cash a bet.

   I think TGJB is more concerned with PERFORMANCE ENHANCEMENT than the various ways horses can be \"gagged\". TGJB, in the 6 or so months I have been following this board, has instigated a brilliant dialogue regarding the relative speed of horses today and yesterday, a dialogue which encompasses both the issues of performance enhancing medication and the condition of track surfaces.
 
  Part of the reason for my post was to state my opinion that \"recreational\" gamblers/ racing fans such as myself don\'t really care if there are haves and have nots in every race which is run. TGJB is concerned with using his figures to identify move up trainers and subject them to heightened scrutiny, I would rather use the information to identify wagering opportunities.

  What I call \"chicanery\" has been a part of racing probably for as long as horses have been matched up competitively. The man they called \"Doc\" Harthill who passed away a couple weeks ago was recognized as the game\'s greatest vet, but was also a master race fixer. Ask me about Bracadale one day.

   [EDIT]Let me answer your post more directly. Why do I get off on these anecdotal tangents? There are many benign, undectable ways of discouraging a horse from running his most efficient race, with the intention of allowing the horse to issue his best effort on a day that would be mutuelly desirable. IMO the increase in purses at many tracks, and especially some small tracks, has curtailed this practice. I dont think there are many trainers/ jockeys holding horses for months, maybe a year, trying to set up the score of the Century. Purses too high and the animals are not starting as many times per year as they used to.

  Two ridiculously close photos in the last couple of days have cost me BIG. Miami Princess in the 9th Wednesday, Trapped Again 7th race yesterday. I give Javier Castellano a good deal of credit for getting Go Now to outfinish Trapped Again; Go Now was really trying to hang, as usual.

I don\'t think \"stiffing\" a horse makes a lot of economic sense in most cases.

First, by stiffing your horse to cash a bet later you are potentially giving up a piece of the current or potential purse. Then you have to deal with the risk that the horse will go bad between the time of the \"stiff\" and the \"betting coup\".  So you have to recover that much long term money/risk on your future bet just to break even.

A large enough bet on that \"future race\" will likely depress the payoff and you still have to deal with the risk of a horrible trip, the horse getting hurt during the race, or a surprise performance by a competitor that gets you beat.  

There\'s got to be easier ways to make money.

I think \"no try\" prep races for first time starters that the connections know are short/green etc.... (and things like that) happen more often. Then the crackdown race occurs with an equipment change etc... when the horse is ready.

[davidrex]

     
      \"I don\'t thik stiffing a horse makes alot of economic sense\"

      \"Even if he wins I think its a mistake\"
 
I\'m starting a little red book of quotes to live by...C.H. Now I know why he refers to himself as the unknown comic.

Class; my stage name at the poker table is the same I use everywhere(dimensia),be you so bold as to divulge same?


PARTYpokerON!


p.s.jerry did you recieve the belly button advisory?No thats not one of my daughters!

[Silver Charm]

These suspensions and additional R & D into stopping the new ways to cheat need to continue. The face of the sport is changing and changing rapidly. In the last two days the sport has lost one of its greatest spokesmen in Pat Day, Jerry Bailey is next and in recent years Laffit Pincay, Chris McCarron and Eddie D. moved out of the sweatbox and to the first tee. Other than Gary and Mike Smith are there any other active Hall of Fame jockeys left.

Once the Mack Millers, Woody's, Van Bergs and Charlies moved on the only high profile hardboots left are D Wayne and Brooklyn Nick. Seems like most of the people who have been promoted to fill the void are 21st Century Jungle Chemists or Circus Clowns with everything but the facial paint and red nose.

Eliminating all the drugs and cheating will allow new responsible people to step forward. But it is going to take time.

davidrex,

I know why some people don\'t understand the \"even if he wins I think it\'s a mistake\" quote. Those are same kind of people that think winning a coin flip getting 4-5 makes it a smart bet.  

I\'m not sure what you are talking about when it comes to the other quote.

Do you think there\'s a lot of stiffing going on?

Do you think it makes economic sense to stiff a horse to cash a future bet?

Do you think it\'s obvious it doesn\'t make sense?

You don\'t want to play poker with me. I\'m small potatoes. I multi-table bonus whore $1-$2 between races and grind out a small profit in addition to the sign up bonuses and reloads. I\'m not a real player. I\'m new to the game. I just know where I belong at this point so I can make money.  

[HP]

Class,

They don\'t necessarily stiff a horse to bet on him in the future...  Almost every story I\'ve read about race fixing involves \"pulling\" a horse or horses and betting on the other ones in the race, who aren\'t being \"stiffed.\"  

HP