pletcher

[kev]

Let me ask everyone this. I know alot of people doesnt care for Bobby Frankel, talking like he\'s one of the user\'s, but has he ever been brought up on any charges??

[Mall]

Same positive as Dutrow, & presumably the same approach when & if the suspension actually occurs: transfer the horses to an \"assistant\" who ends up with an even better win pct. In other words, no real penalty other than a paltry $3k fine, & tough luck for those who bet the horses which finished behind Tales of Glory.





P.S. bit: Enjoyed your pithy comment, esp the way it fit the title of the thread.

[TGJB]

They don\'t need the animal abuse people. Tampering with a pari-mutuel event (and possibly any sporting event, Mall might know) is a crime, I think Federal. That\'s why freezing blood is such a deterrent-- if you develop a test later and can go back and look at samples, someone could be in line for 20-30 convictions for a performance enhancer.

[Saddlecloth]

TGJB Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> They don\'t need the animal abuse people. Tampering
> with a pari-mutuel event (and possibly any
> sporting event, Mall might know) is a crime, I
> think Federal. That\'s why freezing blood is such a
> deterrent-- if you develop a test later and can go
> back and look at samples, someone could be in line
> for 20-30 convictions for a performance enhancer.


I had not heard anyone put it in context like that.  So technically dutrow and peltcher could face tampering charges if a US Attorney got gung ho about the situation?  I think the tough part is proving intent.  These trainers always have a excuse which wouldnt be that far fetched to a 12 person jury who knows nothing about the sport.

[HP]

Don\'t you think it would be harder to make the tampering case than the animal abuse case?  And it\'s not the \"animal abuse\" people who would bring the case, it\'s simply a prosecutor who has to take an interest...  HP

[TGJB]

If you give a performance enhancing drug to a horse that can\'t be in his system naturally, you are by definition tampering with the event, since there is betting on it, and the public doesn\'t know what\'s going on.

[HP]

Why don\'t they just do what they do to the mob guys and bring every charge they can think of?  

I am just mystified as to why there is NOTHING done on ANY legal level (okay, tampering sounds good!) over and above what goes on with the miscellaneous racing boards and state agencies that administer this stuff.  There are clearly laws being broken!  Many of them.  People (and horses) are being injured and suffering damages.  It just seems to be an area that they are mysteriously unwilling to prosecute.  

HP

[Caradoc]

To take New York as an example, only certain substances can get a trainer in trouble.  Section 180.51 of the N.Y. Penal Law is probably what you have in mind:

\"S 180.51 Tampering with a sports contest in the first degree.

A person is guilty of tampering with a sports contest in the first degree when, with intent to influence the outcome of a pari-mutuel horse race:

  1. He affects any equine animal involved in the conduct or operation of a pari-mutuel horse race by administering to the animal in any manner whatsoever any controlled substance listed in section thirty-three hundred six of the public health law . . .\"

I couldn\'t determine in the quick check I did whether mepivacaine is a controlled substance or not.  And, of course, one of the larger questions is how prosecutors could make progress when a lot of what is being adminstered remains unknown to the regulators.  

[mikemd]

half life of mepivacaine is 1.6 hours.  that means every 1.6 hours half of the amount get removed from the system.  the half-life is somewhat variable.  if you expect 1.6 hours and it ends up 3, you can end up with more in the system than you expect at some point after the injection.

from my experience, this is used as a joint block.  it works extremely well.  the problem is that pain is the bodys way of saying something is wrong.  thus, you might only get one race before a career ending injury.    

[cubfan0316]

they did what with pete rose?

[Silver Charm]

Just a few questions:

1.) Who was the Vet in the Dutrow and Pletcher positives? There was a lot Allday name association with those two guys around here earlier this spring. Or is Allday just the Grade One guy?

2.) Speaking of Grade One\'s why does it always seem that the ones getting \"juiced\" are cheaper horses? Are we all supposed to be so stupid that we should believe the Stakes horses aren\'t getting the same \"stuff\"?

3.) Now that we have Frankie Brothers about to serve a suspension, Pletcher on deck and Juan Serey returning to the game from a three year ban. When these three things occur is the integrity of the game getting worse or better?

4.) If Pletcher is forced to step aside for a month or two and cell phone the orders in, will he really be doing anything any different than what Bob Baffert has done his entire career.

[Boscar Obarra]

   lol. Yeah but they aren\'t good sheet readers, so you still have a HUGE edge.

ahem.

TGJB Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Milkshakes were legal until they weren\'t, and they
> don\'t harm the horse. Would you really want to
> have a situation where you would never know who
> was using them and who wasn\'t, and whether a horse
> was being run \"hot\" or \"cold\" last time, and
> today? It would be kind of like... what we have
> now. And it makes this an inside information
> game-- yes, we can make deductions, but we are
> betting against some people who KNOW.

[Boscar Obarra]

  IMO, huge sums have been made by gamblers with access to the information on who is touched, and who isn\'t.

   They likely pay for it, in cash, and use all kinds of cover stories for thier success.

  This , coupled with rebates, have siphoned a large portion of the \'free float\' of dumb money into thier pockets, and out of the pockets of ordinary, even if talented players.

  Of course, this is only a theory , because if I knew it for a fact I\'d buy the same information and use it.

[Chuckles_the_Clown2]

Silver Charm Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Just a few questions:
>
> 1.) Who was the Vet in the Dutrow and Pletcher
> positives? There was a lot Allday name association
> with those two guys around here earlier this
> spring. Or is Allday just the Grade One guy?

My limited knowledge of Vet work is that they are employed on a needs basis. With Allday however, I would not be surprised if he\'s on a retainer or base salary for his respective trainers.

>
> 2.) Speaking of Grade One\'s why does it always
> seem that the ones getting \"juiced\" are cheaper
> horses? Are we all supposed to be so stupid that
> we should believe the Stakes horses aren\'t getting
> the same \"stuff\"?

Sometimes, I dont think they bother with the cheaper horses. Treatments aren\'t cheap. The real money for trainers and \"vets on a commission\" obviously is in the Grade I\'s and thats why Frankel and Pletcher have had considerable success there recently.
 
> 3.) Now that we have Frankie Brothers about to
> serve a suspension, Pletcher on deck and Juan
> Serey returning to the game from a three year ban.
> When these three things occur is the integrity of
> the game getting worse or better?

If you\'re questioning supertesting, tend to agree. Don\'t think its accomplished a whole lot, but will reserve final judgement until this mepivicane thing shakes out.
 
>
> 4.) If Pletcher is forced to step aside for a
> month or two and cell phone the orders in, will he
> really be doing anything any different than what
> Bob Baffert has done his entire career.

Offlee Wild, Saint Liam, sure there\'s others. Does anyone really doubt that a piece of those purses got back to Dutrow? Baffert may not be at the barn as much as some of the old time trainers, but he\'s still got the knack. Note Roman Ruler. Brings them back running.

[davidrex]

     The problem with inside information concerns only those in the dark.

     Personaly Iv\'e been experiencing an eclipse for the last 2 years.

     Try playing Colonial Downs where things are pretty clean and experience the oddities and heartbreak that went thru you when you first got hooked on this game. When I leave my computer after losing,Idon\'t feel cheated and can\'t wait to play same track tomorrow and prove my handicapping prowess is in tact and the previous encounter was a fluke!

        PARTYpokerON!