Ghostdodging and Working the Racing Secretary

[Chuckles_the_Clown2]

What I\'d like is an individual gag/block or silence feature on this board. That was I could Ghost out guys that can\'t save their lives following the ponies.

If he\'d carried 135 it might have been pretty dang close. The rule of thumb is one length per one turn for every five pounds, but the pace of the Met under a 135 impost probably has Silver Wagon right there with him. (That would have been a 21 lb pull) But that race he certainly should have carried 127. Theres just no doubt about it. He still wins by 4 or so carrying that weight. Thats not the issue though. Medallist and Forest Danger didn\'t show up, though you had to figure FD was questionable. Unfortunately Ghostbuster showed up to race on the disinformation spread by Bobby F.

Lets see him carry 130 in the Suburban before we begin comparing him to Bid or Affirmed....lol

CtC



Post Edited (06-01-05 20:17)

[kev]

Affirmed carried 130 or more 2 times and Bid did it 5 times, Cigar 2 times, Seattle Slew once, Secretariat zero, Forego 24 times he raced 57 times. When Forego carried over 136 looks that was it for him, he lost a bit. Won 2 out of 7 with that type of weight, that\'s a hell of a weight, I wonder what the other horses were running with those times.

[richiebee]

Kev and Others:
RE: Weight and Greatness
Excerpted from Patrick Robinson and Richard
Stone Reeves DECADE OF CHAMPIONS.

\".. the Marlboro Cup of 1976. Saturday, September 13, the Belmont track sloppy, Forego was listed to carry 137 pounds, giving 18 pounds to Honest Pleasure and up to 28 pounds to the other nine horses in the field...\"

\"   The 137 pounds was the second highest weight allocated to any horse in a major New York race in 90 years. [Racing] Secretary Tommy] Trotter observed \"If Forego gets hurt out there today... that crowd could very easily string me up from one of those big trees in the paddock...by the thumbs, or worse\"

  \"All through the day, the worried figures of Frank Whitely and Martha Gerry could be seen talking earnestly. Everyone knew they were discussing taking Forego out. Shoemaker refused to give an opinion one way or the other...\"

  \"...splashing into the clubhouse turn, Honest Pleasure, loving the ground, was out in front by two lengths... Forego was way back in eighth position, looking utterly unhappy and rapidly dropping himself out of it altogether\"
 
  \"Into the final long sweeping Belmont turn, Forego seemed to have given up; he was twelve lengths behind the leader. Shoemaker, covered in mud, considered the position helpless since he could scarcely see the tearaway Honest Pleasure through the screen of mud and spray being thrown back at them\"

  \"Suddenly, at the top of the stretch, Forego decided to run. He set off awkwardly, running wide, struggling to get a hold of the surface, like a big speedboat with both propellers bouncing out of the water. Finally, he straightened out and gallantly set sail for home, racing fiercely by himself on the outside, carrying his huge burden all alone-- except that, in a sense, all of us went with him\"

 \"Down the stretch he charged, galloping towards a crowd that did not believe he could possibly get into the first three. Martha Gerry had put down her [binoculars]. Frank Whitely muttered something about \'We\'ve had it this time\' \"

 \"But Forego was still there, eating up the ground with every stride...Shoemaker, keeping Forego perfectly balanced, had his stick poised to lash the big gelding to the wire. All the instincts gathered in the riding of 7,000 winners told him \'Go to the whip. He can\'t make it, but there\'s nothing to lose now.\' But the Shoe recalled another voice shrieking in the confusion of the moment \'For god\'s sake, don\'t touch him. He\'s doing his best\'\".

 \"Through the final furlong they hurtled, passing four horses. Ten feet from the wire, Honest Pleasure still had it; three feet from the wire, he still had it. But on the wire, Forego\'s big stern head, covered in mud, hit the front like a mortar shell to win by about 10 inches.\"

  Personal note: was there that day, win bet, Honest Pleasure. Hard to imagine I was ever 21 years old.

  The Marlboro was Forego\'s last race that year. He came back in 1977 and won the Met under 133, the runner up, Co Host, carried 111.

  In the \'77 Suburban Forego carried 138, beaten a neck, the winner, Quiet Little Table, carried 114. Off that defeat, Forego was assigned 137 in the Brooklyn Handicap and was well beaten by Great Contractor, carrying 112.

   Forego finished last in the Whitney in 1977, but came back to win his fourth straight Woodward in his final race of that year.

   Forego returned in 1978 to try to break Kelso\'s earnings record, but retired $39,000 short.

   That\'s when a sport was a sport.



Post Edited (06-02-05 11:02)

[jbelfior]

richiebee--

Thanks for the walk down memory lane. I also bet on HONEST PLEASURE---$20 to win. Craig Perret was in shock.

I never was so happy to lose money and cheered FOREGO\'s return to the winner\'s circle. This was a terrific horse he was running down...this wasn\'t LOVE OF MONEY or POMEROY, etc...

Would love to know what his thoro # would have been that day considering the weight, trip, etc.


Good Luck,
Joe B.

[miff]

Joe B said,

\"Would love to know what his thoro # would have been that day considering the weight, trip, etc.\"


Joe,


His TG fig would have been much slower than the figs awarded to \"common\" horses today. Don\'t forget TG feels that horses are two seconds faster!! today than the were years ago.

[TGJB]

Richie-- have not played Lido. Played Hollywood yesterday, stunk so bad they might bar me from coming back.

CTC-- knock it off. We\'ve been down this road before. Get attention somewhere else.

Miff-- Rogers Hornsby hit .424. Today\'s players don\'t, so they must not be as good-- right?

1-- I didn\'t make figures for Dr. Fager.

2-- I have no way of knowing how fast the track he ran over was, so no way of answering your question.

[Frank]

\"Rogers Hornsby hit .424. Today\'s players don\'t, so they must not be as good-- right?\"

Maybe, maybe not. I don\'t know for sure. Shaq or Wilt? The Babe or Bonds? I don\'t think these generational comparisons have definitive answers. They are great bar arguments but I can\'t share your certainty. Figure making is just not an exact enough science for me to be convinced.

Do you believe that an average ballplayer, say Nazr Mohammed, is better than Wilt or Russell were? Because, in my opinion, that\'s the same argument as today\'s 25k claimer being faster than the classic winners of 20 years ago.

Frank

[TGJB]

Given the relative length of a generation, it\'s more like an average NBA center against George Mikan. Who do you like? Ever see film of those guys?

Wilt and Russell would be the equivalent of racehorses of the early 90s. And I would very much like to know how Russell would even think about handling these guys today. Wilt would be competitive, but wouldn\'t dominate-- he\'d fit like the top early 90s horses would fit today.

[Frank]

George Mikan died yesterday at age 80. I never saw him play but I imagine you must have.

Why couldn\'t Russell have handled the current big men given that he could handle Wilt, a giant in any era?

Frank

[TGJB]

I\'m not going to get into Russell/Wilt or the rest of the barroom arguments, but I DID NOT see Mikan play.

[Frank]

I\'m not convinced. I\'m going look at old photos of Mikan and check out the courtside seats.

Frank

[miff]

Frank,

The one thing that I think Russ would have trouble with today may be the speed/quickness of the bigger guys today.Remember Wilt was slow motion compared to Russ.

[Frank]

miff,

Which big guys aside from Amare, referred to by Walton as the winner of the genetic lottery, do you think are so quick that they would cause Russell problems? Russell had great speed and quickness along with an unbelievable sense of timing.

Frank

[miff]

Frank,

Last basket post. I loved Russ,fierce, tenacious, a warrior. I think Duncan and Shaq MIGHT be a bit tough for Russ.

[richiebee]

Hey Paisan:

Interestingly, one of the horses Secretariat beat was Forego (1973 Derby).

Forego came into his own at 4, when he was champion sprinter,and Eclipse Award
winning Older Male for the first of FIVE straight years.

Forego was Horse of the Year in 74, 76 and 77.

One of the only good things to have developed in Racing recently is we have
access to the video feed of great racing from all over the world. Racing
was a regional sport in the 70s, and many may have missed Forego\'s best works.

CtC says responding to one\'s own posts is in poor form. How about quoting your
own post, a 2 year old one at that?

richiebee Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Kev and Others:
> RE: Weight and Greatness
> Excerpted from Patrick Robinson and Richard
> Stone Reeves DECADE OF CHAMPIONS.
>
> \".. the Marlboro Cup of 1976. Saturday, September
> 13, the Belmont track sloppy, Forego was listed to
> carry 137 pounds, giving 18 pounds to Honest
> Pleasure and up to 28 pounds to the other nine
> horses in the field...\"
>
> \"   The 137 pounds was the second highest weight
> allocated to any horse in a major New York race in
> 90 years.  Secretary [Tommy] Trotter observed \"If
> Forego gets hurt out there today... that crowd
> could very easily string me up from one of those
> big trees in the paddock...by the thumbs, or
> worse\"
>
>   \"All through the day, the worried figures of
> Frank Whitely and Martha Gerry could be seen
> talking earnestly. Everyone knew they were
> discussing taking Forego out. Shoemaker refused to
> give an opinion one way or the other...\"
>
>   \"...splashing into the clubhouse turn, Honest
> Pleasure, loving the ground, was out in front by
> two lengths... Forego was way back in eighth
> position, looking utterly unhappy and rapidly
> dropping himself out of it altogether\"
>  
>   \"Into the final long sweeping Belmont turn,
> Forego seemed to have given up; he was twelve
> lengths behind the leader. Shoemaker, covered in
> mud, considered the position helpless since he
> could scarcely see the tearaway Honest Pleasure
> through the screen of mud and spray being thrown
> back at them\"
>
>   \"Suddenly, at the top of the stretch, Forego
> decided to run. He set off awkwardly, running
> wide, struggling to get a hold of the surface,
> like a big speedboat with both propellers bouncing
> out of the water. Finally, he straightened out and
> gallantly set sail for home, racing fiercely by
> himself on the outside, carrying his huge burden
> all alone-- except that, in a sense, all of us
> went with him\"
>
>  \"Down the stretch he charged, galloping towards a
> crowd that did not believe he could possibly get
> into the first three. Martha Gerry had put down
> her binoculars. Frank Whitely muttered something about
> \'We\'ve had it this time\' \"
>
>  \"But Forego was still there, eating up the ground
> with every stride...Shoemaker, keeping Forego
> perfectly balanced, had his stick poised to lash
> the big gelding to the wire. All the instincts
> gathered in the riding of 7,000 winners told him
> \'Go to the whip. He can\'t make it, but there\'s
> nothing to lose now.\' But the Shoe recalled
> another voice shrieking in the confusion of the
> moment \'For god\'s sake, don\'t touch him. He\'s
> doing his best\'\".
>
>  \"Through the final furlong they hurtled, passing
> four horses. Ten feet from the wire, Honest
> Pleasure still had it; three feet from the wire,
> he still had it. But on the wire, Forego\'s big
> stern head, covered in mud, hit the front like a
> mortar shell to win by about 10 inches.\"
>
>   Personal note: was there that day, win bet,
> Honest Pleasure. Hard to imagine I was ever 21
> years old.
>
>   The Marlboro was Forego\'s last race that year.
> He came back in 1977 and won the Met under 133,
> the runner up, Co Host, carried 111.
>
>   In the \'77 Suburban Forego carried 138, beaten a
> neck, the winner, Quiet Little Table, carried 114.
> Off that defeat, Forego was assigned 137 in the
> Brooklyn Handicap and was well beaten by Great
> Contractor, carrying 112.
>
>    Forego finished last in the Whitney in 1977,
> but came back to win his fourth straight Woodward
> in his final race of that year.
>
>    Forego returned in 1978 to try to break Kelso\'s
> earnings record, but retired $39,000 short.
>
>    That\'s when a sport was a sport.
>
>
>
> Post Edited (06-02-05 11:02)