What a Light Weight

[Silver Charm]

Really can not believe the Belmont Racing Secreatary only put 123 on Ghostzapper in the Met.

Certainly there is a little marketing magic involved to have the top horse in the world running in your race. Clearly there is fear in having the Trainer scared off.

However there is some responsibility to the tradition of the sport and the immortals who raced before him, if Ghostzapper wants to be held in that same regard, to make him EARN IT just like they did.

[Chuckles_the_Clown2]

Tend to agree Silver. I think they wanted to give Funny Cide 126 or 127 in his first back off a Breeders Cup debacle.

Ghostsprinter should be that AT LEAST. Lets at least ask him to carry the Triple Crown imposts. Forest Danger should probably be in receipt of 7 pounds. But the real issue is Ghostsprinter taking OFF weight from the last two...lmao

Doesnt matter hes going down to chinatown.



Post Edited (05-28-05 21:18)

[Kasept]

That was the first thing I noticed as well today looking at the PP\'s.. It\'s the Metropolitan for god sakes!

I know it\'s not the same \"anymore\", but go back 15 years to the famed \'90 Met.. Easy Goer got 127 in the matchup versus Housebuster (113) and Criminal Type (120).

[Silver Charm]

Kasept you took one of races from my memory bank, the other being Seeking the Gold who was either 125 or 127 like Goer. Both horses I believe were making their respective first starts of the year having RUN SECOND in their final start of the previous year. Which just so happened to be the Breeders Cup Classic a race GZ last won.

Not a single horse in this field has more than one Grade One win on his resume and Silver Wagon\'s last win was a 2X, and yet GZ is only giving 5-9 pounds.

I am all for racing building stars to get more space in the prime media sports section, but this is really a rip-off.

[gvido]

Whining Bobby recently scratched Megahertz from the Gamely for picking up a pound [124] after winning the GII Santa Barbara.

The racing secretaries should pile on the weight on all of Frankel\'s runners. He\'ll keep scratching and eventually some of the owners will get ticked off for keeping the horses in the barn.

123 in the Met is laughable.

During the weeks before the Derby, High Limit worked with Zapper and was forced wide on a couple occasions, making me wonder how sound he is. Him scratching wouldn\'t be a surprise.

[Silver Charm]

Just came across this one and Finley hits the nail on the head.

http://sports.espn.go.com/sports/horse/columns/story?id=2069156

If both Trainer and Owner want to say we could have retired him so feel lucky he is still racing. I say fine just DON\'T TELL ME HE IS A GREAT HORSE.

>But does talent equal greatness? It\'s a question Frankel and Stronach apparently don\'t feel needs to be answered.

Maybe in their minds, but not in the minds of people who know better.

This Great One won\'t elevate his performance.
Even on the biggest stages at the lightest weights.
He seems to be able to summon up something extra and thru shear will produce nothing.



Post Edited (05-29-05 09:10)

[kev]

He\'s a great horse. The number\'s he\'s putting up are sick man. Now if he wins the Met by 2L\'s or less then you all can talk about weight, but what if he wins by 4 or more then what?? It\'s not his fault they put 123 on, take it up with Bel. Then again Bobby might have said, put more on and I\'m going somewhere else. Great horses like this draws the fans out, Cigar, Skip Away, and SJ...and so on. I think some old school fans is never going to say that there has been a great horse snice the way back era. I love people when they say, this horse could have never stand a chance with so-and-so back in the days. Ghost might have 4 more races in him and he\'s gone.

[Chuckles_the_Clown2]

When did Ghostsprinter first become great? Was it in the Vosburgh where he beat Aggadan by 6?  Aggadan has never won a graded stakes. Posse was in that race and finished a length behind Aggadan. Not sure Posse ever ran again.

Was it the Tom Fool where he beat Aggadan again by 4 lengths and Unforgettable Max by seven? Everyone beats Unforgettable Max by 7 sprinting though.

Was it the wet Track Iselin where he beat Presidential Affair by 10? Hard to say, Presidential Affair just got beat near that badly the other day by Eddington.

Was it the neck decision over Saint Liam with Bowman\'s Band back 9 lengths in third? Was that Bowman\'s last race or did he go one more? Great Ghostzapper seems to be catching lots of horses in their last race doens\'t he?

Was it the Breeders Cup Classic where he negotiated a pace with Ramsey and ran over the best part of the track while nearly the whole field encountered tough trips, injury or retirement?

Ghostsprinter has caught some decent breaks in this Met Mile. He\'s very lightly weighted and the field is not stellar. If he wins this one by 6 though we can start calling him Great.



Post Edited (05-29-05 11:52)

[twoshoes]

Why does it seem every year around the Breeder\'s Cup there are about a dozen trainers lamenting that \'the Sprint is a little short for their horse, but he\'s not quite as good on turf and he really doesn\'t want 1 1/4 miles. A flat mile on dirt hits him right between the eyes.\' And every year the Met Mile, one of the great races, draws a six or seven horse field... probably five this year if it isn\'t wet.

[Silver Charm]

Stronach didn\'t make Millions by starting out washing dishes without being a competitor. Put some serious weight on this horse and if the owner and trainer choose to leave him in the barn then they have answered everyones question. He is not a Great Horse.

Should the NYRA franchise be acquired by Stronach is the Racing Secretary afraid he will lose his job because of those extra THREE POUNDS he put on his horse.

As long as this charade goes on there will be some of us who will not let it go in fairness to The Truly Great Ones who came along before this paper champion.

[kev]

So let me ask you this CTC, your going rate great horses by who there running against now?? Forget the fig\'s uh?? People are so full of ****, some people will say Sec. was great because he ran this fast and broke so many records, then GZ comes alone and runs very fast and now it\'s, oh look who he\'s beaten. Well look who the hell Sec. beat in the Bel. that day?? after that he kept running vs. Cougar II and Our Native. The fact is if there were better horses out there that day when GZ was running, then where in the hell was they at?? and to give a sorry reason for the BC win on pace is just sad my man.

[kev]

Ok then SC the great Sec, didnt carry high weight is he not a great one?? Only in the TC races which everyone carry the same amount, after that he was getting weight breaks for being a 3yr, and even then he lost two times. Like I said early if he wins by so much the weights don\'t matter, also how can you tell, how much weight he sould be having?? Like they gave him 123, how did they come up with that??

[Chuckles_the_Clown2]

Ghostzappers one race where he met serious competition (other than the woodward) was the B.C. Classic. That race completely fell apart and I\'ve discounted EVERYONES numbers from that day. Though LoneStar is a joke, Roses in May ran a race thereafter that lent some credence to the classic.

I think Ghostsprinter is going down today for a number of reasons. At 2-5 its wise to stake out a position against him. This is probably the weakest edition of the Met Mile though since Exciting Story won, so thats in GZ\'s favor. He\'s been a pretty well managed horse and has been in the right spot. Today he catches a weak field and spots little weight. If he\'s great he wins this by six easily.

[jimbo66]

Kev,

Debating with the Clown is an exercise in futility.  Doublespeak at the highest level.  

In naming all of those wins by Ghostzapper, there is no mention of any of the figures that the horse earned in those races.  Why?  Because if he did, he would realize that GZ has run the two fastest figures every on T-Graph and a few others in the top 20.  

So for the purposes of this debate, figures are irrelevant.  However, you can find many other Clown posts with statements like \"Jerry is the best on 3 year olds\", \"You have to defer to Thorograph\", etc.etc.

I would lay 2-1 that Clown hasn\'t purchased a Thorograph in the past 6 months, which is his prerogative, but then don\'t make the misleading comments.

GZ is very fast on the figures.  On this, Jerry, Beyer and Rags all agree.  The horse has been dominant from 7 furlongs to 1 1/4.  What else can he do?  Now Frankel and Stronach want to run on grass.  

The fact that they are going with a light campaign again this year is not because they are ducking competition.  Frankel says every chance he gets that he is a sheets user and as such, he believes that horses run their best when fresh.  He has been right with Ghostzapper.

I don\'t like Frankel and I am sure many others would share that opinion, but the fact is that GZ is something special.  

That doesn\'t mean he can\'t lose tomorrow though.  If you can get 2-1 on Forest Danger, I think it might be worth a shot to beat GZ.  Off the paired -4.5, getting 5 pounds, with GZ possibly not fully cranked, there is probably a decent gamble at that price.

I don\'t think you get it though.  3-5 on GZ, 8-5 on Forest Danger.

[jimbo66]

Clown,

More unsupported statements.  The BC Classic fell apart?  What exactly do you base that on?  Roses in May won the richest race in the world this year, pretty easily.

And GZ needs to win by 6?  Forest Danger is coming in off of paired negative 4\'s.  I am assuming you at least understand figures a little bit.  If Forest Danger pairs up again, getting a five pound pull in the weights, GZ has to run a negative 7 or 8 to justify himself?

Do you not believe the figures for the horses or not understand them?  I really don\'t mean that sarcastically, because most anybody on this board who has seen a thorograph and believes in the figures, will tell you that GZ beating FD, spotting him 5 pounds, is a tall order.  Winning by 6 is a ridiculously tall order unless you don\'t believe in the figures or you have some reason to expect a huge \"X\" from Forest Danger.