trouble in paradise

[Silver Charm]

Count me in for a meet at the PBKC.

I heard you frequented the place from another Thorograph Poster--Catalin. He owns the place. They have my info at the TG office, give them yours and we will hook up.

Back to Stronach, I was one his biggest supporters when he first began buying tracks. \"My attitude was give him a chance, he has new ideas, lets see what happens.\"

I call it like I see it, if you haven\'t been able to tell already. Stronach needs to start doing what the racing fans want not what HE thinks the racing fans want.

[Michael D.]

sounds good SC....

i wish i was down in the area now. 80 degrees and sunny for the rest of the week, and a great card scheduled for saturday. i hope to be around in feb, i will let you know.

[richiebee]

My fear with Stronach vis a vis NYRA
is that racing in NY is currently a
political football, with OTB on the
ropes and Spitzer, the wannabe gov,
making a pinata out of NYRA.

Frnk Stro seemed to have no impact
in Maryland, another state where
racing is now a political issue.
From all reports, racing in MD
is nearly extinct.

If NYRA loses the franchise in 07,
I would rather see the twin spires
people get it, even though it would
take some chutzpah to display their
ever present logo at New York tracks.
At least they have a century of
experience running racing, as opposed
to the auto parts guy. i take nothing away
from him as a brilliant breeder/owner.

[Silver Charm]

>i take nothing away from him as a brilliant breeder/owner.

In this field he is kicking everyones tale.

Totally agree with you.

[Chuckles_the_Clown2]

He\'s had some good ones: Awesome Again, Macho Uno, Ghostzapper. The question that arises is \"How much is good breeding, how much is something else.\" Awesome Again is the real deal and looks to be his foundation for the time being. That and auto millions...lol

CtC

[Silver Charm]

Touch Gold is no bum either and did I hear someone say Wild Rush or no maybe it was El Prado.

YOU obviously get the point and join us at the PBKC.

[HP]

It\'s a crying shame about Hialeah.  Absolutely beautiful.  I wouldn\'t get out of my car in the area around Calder.  That\'s a dangerous neighborhood.  I\'d rather go to Hialeah anyday.  HP

[Chuckles_the_Clown2]

Silver Charm wrote:

> I call it like I see it, if you haven\'t been able to tell
> already. Stronach needs to start doing what the racing fans
> want not what HE thinks the racing fans want.

I had a brief correspondence with Frank Stronach\'s office. It pertained to problems with Xpressbet, but thats all I want to say about that. I got the distinct impression that like a political party\'s elected candidate he has \"gotten away for his base\". I really think he sees himself as a visionary capable of expanding the game he loves, but also willing to make concessions to \"grow the game\". I wish him luck, only time will tell, but I don\'t want him making serious inroads upon the games true backers and traditions. The New York facilities are a big part of that.

[Thehoarsehorseplayer]

For what it\'s worth-and it\'s not worth much- I had a bit of a conversation with Mr. Stronach and his son Andy about their vision for racetracks one day at Santa Anita a few years ago.  And I came away with this impression: Mr Stronach is at least willing to listen to people, but Andy is convinced he has all the answers.
And basically their perspective is that people attend races for entertainment. Taking care of the needs of serious horseplayers by investing in information delivery systems is not a high priority to them because they don\'t believe that the demographic is large enough to make such expenditures cost effective.
In fact, I got the distinct impression they felt serious horseplayers were pretty much a captive audience and therefore a constant regardless how they were treated.
On the other hand Mr. Stronach really does love horses and the sporting aspects of horse racing.  He really does think that racing is such a wonderful sport that it will sell itself.  All he has to do is provide facilities that the populace will feel comfortable coming to, or better yet have other reasons like retail shopping to induce their attendance,  and the inherent  
beauty of racing will have them coming back for more.
My take, of course, is that it is the serious horseplayer who creates the energy the race track experience thrives on.  Celebrate handicapping, honor information, and the energy created by horseplayers will
make the track a happening place to be.
Of course, I don\'t feel that my vision and the Stronach\'s vision are mutually exclusive.  But Andy didn\'t even want to grant me that.
So, Andy and I didn\'t exactly hit it off.  But I did like Mr. Stronach.  And am inclined to give him credit for everything that goes right, and blame Andy for everything that goes wrong.



Post Edited (01-05-05 15:25)

[TGJB]

Meanwhile, it is interesting to note that Magna has done a 180 degree reversal of their way of doing business in the last 3 weeks. Before, they were taking a screw-everyone approach (which included us on the rebate deal, which was THEIR idea, although they pretended it was a surprise to them when Hegarty went after them). Now, they have gone from giving no one their signal to doing deals with everyone in sight ( announced Pha phone bet today), went partners with Churchill (!!) on selling the signals to foreign countries, and joined up with CD and others in the \"Friends of NY Racing\" venture (Orwell would love that one).

As Grace Slick said at Woodstock, it\'s a new dawn. Stay tuned.

[TGJB]

Last I heard Andy had split off on his own, and has nothing to do with his father\'s empire, although he may end up running it in the end. I have had several smart people tell me he is a very bright guy who comes across as not that way when you first meet him. He approached us at one point about using our data in a kind of racing game that could be placed in bars-- there were several problems both with the idea and our participation, and as far as I know it never went anywhere. He does know a number of people who are very serious bettors, some of them TG, and I would be surprised if he still took that view of the industry.

The biggest problem with Magna, (aside from the bad attitude, which seems to have changed), is that they have hired very few people who know anything about racing, and they are extremely reluctant to give more than a one year contract to anyone, which severely limits their ability to get anyone good. Hence the musical chairs with management. It will be very interesting to see where they and the rest of the industry go this year.

[Thehoarsehorseplayer]

JB
In all fairness I substituted the phrase \"captive audience\" for degenerate in my previous post because certainly neither of the Stronachs said anything derogatory about horseplayers to me.
What I do remember about the conversation was how resistant Andy was to the idea that spending money on improving information for the serious horseplayer was a good investment.
But I also want to say that I don\'t think one has to be a big bettor to be a serious horseplayer.  This is a mistake I think  a lot of industry people make including the NTRA made with their Player\'s Panel last year.
A serious horseplayer is a guy who studies the game, and goes out to the race track (or bets on line) as often as he can.  He might, or might not wager a lot of money, but whatever he bets is based upon studying his past performances with some intensity.  This guy is by nature a puzzle solver; the access to and reliability of information being the lifeblood of his racing experience.  This is what I mean by a serious horseplayer, one who takes handicapping seriously. And always the hope is that the serious player of today will be the big bettor of tomorrow.



Post Edited (01-05-05 16:29)

>What I do remember about the conversation was how resistant Andy was to the idea that spending money on improving information for the serious horseplayer was a good investment.<

Unfortunately he may actually be right.

Your points about serious players wanting  information are certainly correct.

However, I don\'t think information availablity was ever an issue for me in whether or not I was attracted to the game and I was serious $2 better at one time. :-)

At some level I would prefer that there was less information out there. I would be more than willing to compile some of it myself if it was cost effective. These days you can get high quality speed figures for free in the DRF (assuming you know what goes into them and how to use them properly) and all kinds of supplemental pace, trip, bias, and trainer info for next to nothing per day.  

If you are willing to pay more you can get even more (TG).

I think what is really needed is education on how to use the information and how to bet profitably (how to think). That\'s how you maximize the chances of more serious players (regardless of whether they bet big or not) winning or at least getting close. If you are at least getting close, it encourages you to keep playing and trying. If you have loads of information and are still playing 4-5 shots with a 50% chance of winning you are screwed and will eventually quit even if you know a lot and have a lot of info.

The real problem is the pace and difficulty of the game relative to others. It is very slow and tough . I can get more action in 15 minutes on the poker table than I can get in a weekend at the track. Both appeal to mathematically oriented puzzle solvers etc... and unfortunately for horseracing, poker is much easier to win at.  It took me many years to be able to produce fairly consistent profits at the track. It took me a few months at poker.

IMHO, we need WAY fewer racetracks. They are often a monumental waste of good real estate and are very cost ineffective. Only a handful in the country make sense. They should have their signals sent everywhere else to simulcast outlets and online betting sites. Then the take could be reduced dramatically and give more players a shot at winning. The politics of it are a problem, but that\'s to be expected. Politicians are one notch above being intrinsically evil. It could be worked out eventually.

[gowand]

The weekends leading up to the Alabama are always fine as far as crowds are concerned.  I think a lot also depends on the weather.  It will be interesting to see how much (if any) money Stronach has contributed to Elliot Spitzer\'s war chest.  If it is significant I would be very suspicious of its relationship to the bad press NYRA got recenlty thanks to Spitzer.  Does anyone really think that jockey\'s possibly riding overwieght is an issue that would be addressed by the NY attorney general if he was not running for governor and the NYRA franchise wasn\'t up in a couple of years.

[Chuckles_the_Clown2]

I don\'t think the Jockey overweight thing has \"legs\". They\'ll catch the couple individuals involved and discipline them. Self interest will always lead some to bend the rules, whether they are jockeys or national guardsmen flying obsolete jets.

I\'m not certain P.Snort is gonna get a chance at that Stakes Victory Party. One of the Stewards that has it in for him moved up to the CHRB. What PVal needs to do is seek higher office. Snorting is not held in the same disregard in some lines of work.

The Fu\'s are experiencing a little early Triple Crown Prep problem finding a race. Apparently Drysdale wanted to \"turn back\" FuSham after his strenuous 6.5 mark maiden romp. His target was the 6 mark San Miguel, but he says rains have interfered with training so that race is out. Theres a big difference between maidens and winners, especially horses that have been knocking stakes head. Does Drysdale seem worried to you? He does to me. FuMan Ruler seems to be exhibiting the typical \"Prospector\" ouchy issues. He returned from a work sore and also is out of the stamina evaluating San Miguel. The FuPig I like best is Killenaule. He rated behind in the \"Storm Cat\" and finished with good energy to win by five. He\'s been beat by Rockport Harbor, but that one may be the top young horse just now.



Post Edited (01-06-05 08:36)