Listen...

[Boscar Obarra]

I doubt I need to tell you, but logic and rationality in all things, has left the building long ago.

[Strike]

confused Wrote:
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> You\'re saying this horse was a \'move up\' horse?
> Give me a break, he was among the leaders in
> numbers going into the race.  Did he improve?
> Yes.  But not out of the range of normalcy for a
> young horse.
>
> Baffert may be an egotistical idiot, but he\'s no
> fool.  This positive is not the reason the horse
> won.  Give Baffert some credit and JV too.  They
> stole the race the old fashioned way.


I do not agree. His pattern into the race was essentially a throwout. If you study patterns maybe you are a bit \"confused.\"

[jma11473]

TGJB Wrote:
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> The biggest problem is the “positives” are
> garbage, while actual move ups are going on all
> the time. The industry is trying to look like
> they’re serious while not being willing to do
> serious thingsâ€" like freeze and retest samples.
> Like publish test results so we know the testers
> are actually doing their fâ€"-ing jobs.


Disqualifying the most famous trainer in America from the biggest horse race in America seems pretty serious...

[TGJB]

I think you can still probably find the seminar someplace.

[TGJB]

Seems is exactly the right word.

[confused]

We\'re not supposed to talk about winners postrace, but maybe my patterns are better than yours.  Sorry, I don\'t like to go negative, but MS looked like one of the top 5 in the race to me, PRE-race.

[johnnym]

I would debate that pattern interpretation with you.

[confused]

No need to.  You were wrong and I was right.  I think that\'s what counts in handicapping.

[T Severini]

Not going to post the sources again, but Ol\' Bobby is contradicting himself. He claimed in one breath that the horse was never given the medication.  However there is a vet that maintains the horse was treated with the medication 18 days prior to the Derby.  Which is it?

Now Bobby is arguing \"Cancel Culture\", that its wrong to disqualify his horse on something this insignificant.

So which is it, a fabrication or a de minimis transgression?

In the end Ol\' Bobby can say whatever he wishes but its not of much import because the standard is one of Strict Liablity and the amount is not much less than found in Gamines blood post Kentucky Oaks.
 
unless the cross sample comes back clean its seven knots and a swing.  

Cancel That!

[Strike]

TGJB Wrote:
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> I think you can still probably find the seminar
> someplace.


\"Medina Spirit â€" cost just a little less than Baffert’s babies usually do, but as soon as he was stretched out he started pounding out good figures. In his last he raced wide and actually earned almost the same figure as the winner, who saved ground. We don’t love the four preps and he’s only a borderline fit on ability, but there are a couple of other things to consider. On the plus side, a lot of Baffert runners move forward when they leave California. But this guy has been getting wide trips in small fieldsâ€"that could be a real issue in a huge field.\"


Perhaps \"a throwout\" was a bit harsh. I didn\'t like him. TG was \"borderline\" with him and 3 others in the B Group while liking 4 other horses in the A Group. But, the seminar did like the post position draw.

My very dependable rear view mirror says he could have been used but certainly not as a key unless you were a Baffert lover.

[voicemale]

TGJB Wrote:
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> I have no dog in this fight. But someone please
> explain to me why a guy would use a drug
>
> a) that doesn\'t move a horse up
>
> b) that he knows there\'s a test for
>
> c) because he\'s had a positive for it before,
> after which he swore publicly they would never
> allow it in the barn again.
>
> Walk me through the risk/reward on this. I have no
> idea whether Baffert is using something, but if he
> is it ain\'t this stuff. He\'s not an idiot.


Then let\'s reverse your scenario. A trainer who\'s had 3 Derby winners in 5 years gets exposed with two of them having to face doping issues, along with Gamine in the Oaks. If this drug is as innocuous as you suggest, why is it prohibited to the extent it\'s got its own test to detect it? And since its prohibited everywhere, not just in Kentucky, why would that be if it offers no assistance to performance anyway? That the same guy - who just went through months of trying to shake off the medication rap of Justify - turns up with another positive in the Derby, let\'s call it an overall pattern that any common sense suggests is \"suspicious\" (and that\'s being charitable). As to your statement about Baffert not being an idiot in this case because you suggest he\'s too smart to get caught with this...I\'ll offer a scenario to prove this in fact makes him the biggest idiot for the reason you cite.

The KHRC is going to have to disqualify Medina Spirit because the horse is in violation of their rules governing permissive use medication - full stop. That means his owners lose the purse money. They now get zero. If the KHRC doesn\'t disqualify Medina Spirit, what do you think the other owners of the runners up will do? They\'ll go straight to court, and it will be an open and shut case. The 2nd-6th place owners all stand to get much more money by getting Medina Spirit disqualified and redistributing the purse. To avoid the protracted court battle and it\'s attendant terrible publicity, the KHRC will almost be forced to disqualify to get the thing shut down now, because the last thing they want is to uphold Medina Spirit as the winner and then have a judge toss the whole thing out. They end up looking stupid, and worse, it can make the KHRC look they they are part of the corruption. Not to mention, what do you think Pimlico is facing now? They have to decide what to do - allow Baffert and all the horrible press of all his doped steeds come to Maryland? The MD Racing Commission will need guidance from the KHRC - will Kentucky suspend Baffert for his overall pattern of violations in Kentucky\'s two biggest races in 3 of the last 5 years? ALL of this fallout from a guy you say gives an innocuous prohibited substance he knows they test for that won\'t help his horse win.

Now tell us again how stupid Baffert ain\'t. If they disqualify via KHRC or a judge, he will have cost the owner a ton of money. That qualifies as an idiot in my book.

[TGJB]

You have a lot of reading ahead of you just on this string.

[voicemale]

KHRC statement:

https://www.bloodhorse.com/horse-racing/articles/250053/khrc-outlines-procedures-following-failed-drug-test?utm_source=BHTW&utm_medium=social

[Focus959]

It takes 4-8 weeks for the split sample, so hypothetically, he could win the Preakness and Belmont and get DQ\'d from the Triple Crown for a drug positive, Just when you thought the game hits rock bottom, look out below. Baffert taking us on a ride...

[P-Dub]

TreadHead Wrote:
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> Then comes the story that one of his recent
> violations was because a groom pissed on the
> horse\'s hay, and any arguments grounded in logic
> and the protection that they might/should be
> offering these horses goes out the window.


This is a really piss poor argument