Listen...

[TGJB]

I have no dog in this fight. But someone please explain to me why a guy would use a drug

a) that doesn\'t move a horse up

b) that he knows there\'s a test for

c) because he\'s had a positive for it before, after which he swore publicly they would never allow it in the barn again.

Walk me through the risk/reward on this. I have no idea whether Baffert is using something, but if he is it ain\'t this stuff. He\'s not an idiot.

[jerry]

You can apply the same logic to any of his other positives can’t you? The medication must have some beneficial effect or it wouldn’t be on the list of controlled substances.

[TGJB]

Let\'s say yes. So?

You\'re talking about an incredibly small amount here. And the stuff is found at the track and used between races.

But you haven\'t addressed the question. How is there enough upside to warrant the (likely) downside, especially in a race like this? We\'re not talking about something like EPO or Clenbuterol, which have dramatic effects.

[makrmark]

maybe its this

Page 28 of the FBI Indictment of Servis. \"There is no test for it in America, SGF-1000 may appear on a drug test as a false positive result for a different substance, Dex\"

[Fairmount1]

One possibility:

Whatever he may be using (whether unethical, ethical, legal, or illegal I don\'t know) is showing a false positive for beta.  Just like Servis, SGF 1000, and a possible Dex false positive which was discussed on the wiretap. . . . .That\'s why he can be so insistent he didn\'t use beta.

[Roman]

If you trained Gamine, would you dope her? Treating  her 18 days out is well within the withdrawal time they set. He admits giving it to her and she still tested positive, which suggests her metabolism is different than other equines.
I agree with TGJB, he ain’t dumb, he is aware of the situation he is in. This should be interesting. Delaware threw out Pletchers positive for this very same thing. If you are testing at the picogram level, the place needs to be spotless , the grooms and assistants should be in hazmat suits, and so on.  Figure the horse weighs a 1000 pounds, is 21 picograms , +-5 picograms , going to affect a horse.
Like I said, I am not good at math , but horse equals 28,000 grams and the level of betameth equals .000000000021 grams . Come on!

[jerry]

My guess is they were using it between races and there was a residual amount still in the horses system.

The question then would be why did Baffert deny ever treating the horse with it when he could have copped the residual amount plea. The answer is the DQ would stand.

[johnnym]

Agree 100% regarding risk reward.

Makes zero sense.

[rezlegal]

Like others on this string and the related postings on this board, I also have no idea whether Baffert was using and am not smart enough to climb inside his head regarding the risk reward. I do seek to challenge some of the assertions I have read here. First, when it is written that the drug in question “ does not move a horse up” I don’t know what that means.The fact that it is not EPO does not mean it cannot help a horse run better than if it wasn’t on the drug. The drug in question is a type of steroid/ anti inflammatory  -  think super advil. If any of us was running in a 5k and had an ouchy  ankle, I assume  we can stipulate that if we took advil before the race it would assist our ability to navigate the  5k. Assuming arguendo, Medina a did receive a shot of the drug before the derby in his ankle I assume it was given for a similar reason- to help Medina deal with an ouchy ankle. It may not assist in helping the horse with its oxygen content, i.e. EPO, but it would, arguably, make it a tad easier for the horse to run 1 1/4 miles for the first time. In terms of the dose ( and this comes from one of the zillion articles written over the past 24 hours), if the drug is administered directly into a specific area, the fact that a horse has a zillion milligrams or pints of blood is irrelevant- it is primarily absorbed in the area of the injection. Finally, and this comes from the TDN- Baffert, Maker, Casse, Brown and Assmussen ran in the most graded races in 2020-2021( and we know our suspicions about some of the other names)- other than Baffert none of the others had a positive test. Baffert - in 449 graded races had 5. As a bonus,  I ask the following by way of pure paranoia- what are the odds of the same trainer having a $17000 purchase with a crooked knee that he ran in New Mexico win the Derby ( see Real Quiet) and 25 years later do the same thing with a horse from a stallion with a $1000 stud fee as bought on the cheap. Which will be worse for racing- the split sample confirming the first finding or the opposite- calling the regulation of this issue and the competence of those who are in charge even more in doubt

[boardedup]

IMO the worst for racing is having the most visible trainer’s horse “taken down” or DQ’d in the biggest race of the year.  That is an unmitigated disaster that the sport can’t let happen.  I could see lawsuit after lawsuit after class action suit being filed, the result would be the nut low on multiple levels.  Just can’t happen.

[T Severini]

Regarding the Steroid in question, Gamines split sample confirmed the presence of the \"medication\" and Gamine was disqualified from the Kentucky Oaks, a race she finished third in, carrying her speed a long way.

Gamine\'s Kentucky Oaks

Since then, Gamine has evolved into a sprint mare and Baffert maintains she is one of his best mares ever.

After a spate of positives Baffert vowed to run a \"tighter ship\", stating, we\'ve been running our stable like a first class stable, but we must run it like a hospital.

Hospitial cross contamination pledge


(Baffert and his Lawyer, maintained the positives were from exposure to stable hands taking the Race Day banned medications.)  That defense did not hold up with Gamine, likely based upon a \"Strictly Liable\" for ANY positive standard.

Baffert Vows New Precautions

Post \"Tighter Ship\" vow, Medina Spirit now has a positive with the same Medication Gamine was disqualified upon. However, it does not yet appear that the split sample has been tested to confirm the positive.

Performance enhancing? In the anecdotes and alchemy of medications can anyone truly say? Who would like to hear Bafferts opinion on that regardless of what he might say?

[Tavasco]

It is my understanding that the Kentucky Horse Racing Commission manages the Churchil Downs equine blood testing. They are the ones who announced Medina Spirit was in violation of the rules.

Churchil Downs Inc. (CDI) was the organization that banned entries from trainer Baffert.

Generally speaking CDI\'s actions take some consideration to appreciate. Their ban of Baffert entries is curious because it was so rapid seemingly a knee jerk response?

As an amateur sleuth, aren\'t all handicappers, assuming some CDI exec or department has in-depth knowledge of PED use and testing. I surmise that the presence of \"Dex\" in Medina Spirit\'s blood is a known (by insiders) by-product  of using a PED like STR-1000. Their reaction could be as simple as damn it... enough is enough. Same basis or precedent as Hollendorfer?

[jma11473]

One of the strangest, most contradictory things among horseplayers is the constant, never-ending complaining about move-up horses, it\'s the Wild West out there, the huge unexplained improvements in horses off the claim, horses rebreaking, trainers with horses that have endless stamina, when are they going to clean up the game, we need federal regulation....and then when someone gets busted, it\'s \"But not that guy!\" \"The dose is too small!\" \"Not that drug!\"

[Marlin]

More importantly, How many mattresses did Mattress Mike sell that week?
Couldn\'t help myself.

[TGJB]

Richardâ€" the move up drugs (EPO etc.) allow the horse to run faster than nature gives him the ability to do by increasing red blood cells, air flow, or muscle. Other drugs (anti-inflammatories etc.) give the horse the ability to run as fast as he naturally can, but don’t move him up.

There are good reasons not to allow some things in the second category (like pain killers) to be used in races themselvesâ€" to protect both the horses and the public (you could run a horse hot or cold and the public wouldn’t know. Think Lasix on and off without the public knowingâ€" which is pretty much the world we are now entering).

The idea of testing and withdrawal times is to guarantee the above. They figure out how far out a drug would stop being in a horse’s system (and having an effect), then add a cushion of extra days for safety.

The drugs that are involved in most of these cases (Asmussen, Baffert etc.) are in the second category. They are legal to use between races, but NOT in a race itself, and the amounts found generally (and just now) were tiny traces. Aside from not being something someone would use to cheat, there is no indication enough could still be in a horse’s system to have an effect.

 The group busted about this time last year appear to fall into the first (move up) category, As is the White Mercedes crap I’ve detailed here over the years. Anyone who has been coming to this site for a while knows my position on that stuff, I’ve been fighting it longer and louder than anyone else.

There are situations where a positive for an anti-inflammatory could be suspiciousâ€" a big drop down in a claiming race with a larger amount found would be an example, especially if after the drug wears off the horse is lame. The idea would be they’re trying to get past the vet to dump the horse.

But this was the opposite. It’s the Derby, and he’s running back in two weeks. No way Baffert was knowingly doing something involving that drug. No upside and a lot of downside.

Good overview on all this by Matt Hegarty on the DRF site.