Here we go.

[Strike]

Roman Wrote:
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> 1 Picogram is exactly 0.000000000000001 kilograms.
> It’s like money in Miami. All covered in
> cocaine. Testing to a picogram , you are bound to
> find something that shouldn’t belong, and
> probably will not know how it got there.


Nice to hear you are good at math. Out of the 20 Kentucky Derby entrants, guess how many came up positive? Exactly 1. Justify. Charlatan. Gamine. Now, this one. New Baffert tattoo -- \"Can\'t catch me.\" Unfortunately, probably true until horse racing gets serious like baseball did.

[prist]

Roman Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> 1 Picogram is exactly 0.000000000000001 kilograms.
> It’s like money in Miami. All covered in
> cocaine. Testing to a picogram , you are bound to
> find something that shouldn’t belong, and
> probably will not know how it got there.

All I know is that this horse moved forward 2 points off a flat looking line. Just saying.

Curious what he looked like on The Sheets.

[Roman]

Not to sophisticated, to sensitive. Did all derby entrants get tested?
What is interesting is they took an out of competition test on April 18th.
If the withdrawal time is approx. 2 weeks, reason would have it that MS would have tested positive on the 18th, or if he was treated after the 18th, the levels would be higher. Baffert swears that this colt never was treated with betamethasone. So just taking everything at it’s face value, something seems off.

I trust the testing, but as to my Miami and money reference, there is so much contaminated money with cocaine that law enforcement cannot use that as an accurate means of probable cause for search and seizure.

[BB]

Very good point (and yes, I\'m an idiot, post edited)

[Roman]

Baffert admitted that Gamine was treated, my point is setting thresholds that low, there is no room for error in withdrawal times.
I think surveillance, with meticulous record keeping which should be made public, along with testing , should be considered when reviewing a test. Assuming that like humans, every horse is different in its metabolism and how they process medication. Some humans need more meds than others, as in larger doses.
Just for comparison , if a human smokes some weed, the withdrawal times vary greatly from person to person.  It stands to reason that the same would happen in animals.

[Roman]

I think I suck at math, but anyways, the point was to show how sensitive the testing is, it’s 1 trillionth of a gram, pretty small

[Fairmount1]

Taking things at face value in horse racing hahaha.  If you haven\'t watched his so called \"presser\" give it a look.  Especially when he hails all the transparency ever with Medina.  And then an editor for Paulick asks if he will release vet records to the public and he pauses looking for an answer only to say he will (or has?) given it to the Kentucky Racing folks.  

As richiebee pointed out LONG ago, the horses likely work with the medications and then they are likely cleared out by race day.  He worked on the 23rd.  But no lasix these days might be slowing how quickly things clear??  

Betamethasone and Dexamethasone are both corticosteroids. Some reading about how maybe testing wasn\'t catching these things (Dex) below.  But maybe now they are?  Even if in picograms Dex or Beta or whatever. . . . Another positive test.  29 times prior he has had troubles so kind of hard to think he isn\'t \"pushing the envelope.\"  And even harder to give him any credibility.

_______________________________________

\"According to the indictment, around June 5, 2019, New Jersey regulators tested Maximum Security ahead of the TVG.com Pegasus Stakes at Monmouth Park, a short time after the horse had been given a shot of SGF-1000. During an intercepted call between Servis and Rhein, the veterinarian is heard saying, \"They don\'t even have a test for it (SGF-1000) ... There\'s no test for it in America.\"

Rhein goes on to say the test might show a false positive for \"dex\" and agreed to falsify records to make it appear as if the racehorse received \"dex.\" The indictment does not clarify, but \"dex\" is a common shorthand among horsemen and vets for the corticosteroid and anti-inflammatory dexamethasone.\"



https://www.bloodhorse.com/horse-racing/articles/238970/the-mystery-of-sgf-1000-at-center-of-indictments

[Roman]

That’s why testing isn’t the answer, you only can test for what you know about. Does doping occur? Absolutely! I know first hand it does. Surveillance is needed along with testing. They should treat the backstretch like Fort Knox. Random searches, limited entry , severe penalties for violations. How do you catch someone using Sgf - 1000, no test available, you have to watch them using it.
So while we chase around picograms, in urine and blood testing, only looking there, is not going to stop anything.

[philywheel]

Doulble the amount allowed, Ban Baffert Forever, I had the place horse not Fair

[Roman]

Agree that Baffert really pushes the envelope, probably past the grey point and into the black territory. Is he doping like Servis and Navarro, probably not.
And here is my logic. Mind you I am Polish, so take that into consideration. Joking. Baffert gets some of the best stock out there, wins the biggest races, has some deep pocketed owners. And on the backstretch , that breeds envy and suspicion. As a competitor, you want to win , and loosing sucks. So you push the envelope and so on and so on. You would think that with that much hatred, he would have been exposed long ago, like Servis and Navarro. But all his overages have been for “legally permissible” but not on race day medication. So I would think that pushing the envelope is correct. Servis he is not.
I know a guy, won’t mention his name, my father in law, he trained around 100 horses for a private stable in the 1970’s thru the 80’s, literally with hay Oates & agua, and I asked him if he would ever dope, and he said no, but if he was racing today, he would seriously consider it just to compete and keep the barn going. Transparency is so lacking, this guy thinks that guy is cheating , so I have to cheat to compete, it’s almost Tour de France territory. Keep one step ahead of the testers.

[Roman]

Just like banning Hollendorfer solved it all

[TGJB]

Agree on both points.

[jerry]

GUILTY

[jerry]

If that’s the case then there should be a lot more positives from other trainers’ horses shouldn’t there be?

[billk5300s]

These trainers are all magicians.  There’s one or two at every track.  That horse sprinted 9 furlongs.  I doubt that was coincidence.  With BB there are a lot of coincidences.  How many times are his horses a point or 2 slower on the graph, get bet to 2/5 and destroy a field?  TGJB commented that he’s not stupid, but he is smug and arrogant.  I’m sure they won’t question ME runs through his mind a lot.