Can't have it both ways

[jma11473]

If the Derby is the 6th at Parx today, the horse comes down. You can think there should never be any DQs, or that herding should be allowed no matter the safety issue, but if there are rules then that was an easy DQ.

[Flighted Iron]

Jim,

 Just for clarification puposes the altercation wasn\'t at the top of the stretch. Took place approaching the 5/16\'s.

[atakante]

How about last year\'s Belmont?  

If that edition were to take place this year after the KD DQ saga...one could argue Bravazo\'s chances to hit the board was severely limited after the \"race riding\" on Restoring Hope. Ok, one can say that was in the first turn. If so, is the new norm that you can go crazy before the stretch run but have to be in your best behavior after the second turn?

Seems like a whole new can of worms has been opened...and there will likely be many more objections and long waits to find the Triple Crown race winners from now on.

[P-Dub]

This wasn\'t bumping and jostling.

This was a horse coming out 2-3 paths, directly in front of a horse that was making a move at full speed into the stretch. It\'s dangerous, significantly affected WOW, and a foul.

I didn\'t like Prat lodging an objection, and Mott didn\'t have to say what he did. Nobody needed to hear him tell us the difference between the Derby and a 10k claimer on a Thursday. This is the part that irritates me. Just shut up until the decision, then tell us about 10k claimers and stewards doing the right thing.

After having a few days to settle down, my final thoughts are:

- WOW was significantly impacted and deprived of his chance to win. Without the interference I think he had a real shot to win.

- Prat should have kept his mouth shut and never lodged an objection.  He had every chance to win, wasn\'t impeded, and just wasn\'t good enough.

- Long Range Toddy finished 18th and also should have said nothing, going the same route as WOW. If the objection doesn\'t get you on the board or a check, why bother?

If this happens, Maximum Security wins and I bitch and moan about how my horse got impeded. Wouldn\'t be the first time, and I can live with it. But once the objections were lodged, it\'s difficult not to take him down.

[wrongly1]

I agree with that!  

Also watching the replays Max comes out twice.  First just going into the turn by 1-2 paths goes back to the rail and then again comes out by 3-4 paths.  The ruling was correct.  Only other camp of thought is it\'s the derby let it go; like last minute of a college basketball game, don\'t call the foul just take your lumps.

I was there for both days.  Oaks day was ruled by juice, so it was with little surprise that juice played such a huge part in horse racing biggest day.  Rather sad that I told a friend that the game had come down to playing which trainer rather than which horse.

[toppled]

Byk was taking an unofficial survey among his guests.  The interesting thing is the media & jockeys were on the side of no DQ, and all 3 trainers were in favor of the DQ.
 
No DQ: Byk, Johhny D, Beyer, Grening, Migliore, T. Black.

DQ: Amoss, Calhoun, Arnold.

Migliore also mentioned that Bill Boland who served in multiple capacities including as a jockey who himself claimed foul in a Derby was in the no DQ camp.

[johnnym]

I thought MiG made a great point about the whip and how Saez was able to correct Maximum because of the whip.

[dcost328]

the biggest issue for me is Prat calling foul. he told the NBC interview post race that he was bounced SIDEWAYS.

if that doesn\'t leave a bad taste in your mouth, I don\'t know what would.

I can\'t get past the fact we are talking about a rule is a rule and emphasizing rules so much but the whole industry is nothing but liars, cheats, and frauds.

it is disgusting.

I have cut back significantly in the amount I play because of all the unsavory b/s behind the scenes.

I am not well connected like some of the guys on here who know the scoop and the trainers and have \"insider\" knowledge of this sort of thing.

I used to love handicapping races and having the thrill of being \"right\" on a longshot if it comes in.

Now the times I do play I am more concerned about who is also in the race that might be cheating and run something unpredictable?

It\'s completely ruined the sport, at least for me.

Not saying what Prat did was cheating but it is still right up there with the shady dishonest garbage that plagues the sport and makes it harder and harder to enjoy.

[boardedup]

I agree with this general thought above.To me it’s what comes next.  For the first time in 145 runnings of the most popular race in the world, the winner was taken down in real time, the betting outcome literally turned upside down.  If you don’t think this will drastically change things going forward you’re being naive.

Expect the number of objects/inquires to go through the roof, and like I said the other day, we’ll all have the privilege of playing the waiting game on the biggest days to see who gets taken down or not.  And quite honestly I see it being a total disaster. The calls of corruption and “the fix is in” will grow incessantly louder.  People will be turned off in droves.

Once the ginnie is out of the bottle they don’t go back in.  The precedent was set and now we’ll have to deal with it.  Some will say this opinion is much to do about nothing, making mountains out of mole hills.  But just look at every other sport (or any facet of life really) where a precedent was set and how there was no looking back after.  A brave new world for sure.

On another tip, if both MS and Country House run in MD the spectacle will be unlike anything I can remember.  I think the patrons will be insanely pro Max Security, to a fever pitch.  Conversely Mott likely gets jeered and treated like a heel.  My guess is everyone involved suspects this, and I don’t think Country House will run one way or another.  MS will get Hammered at the windows, which could lend itself to a decent betting race.  I’m really interested in the crowd reaction in a 2019 world.  I didn’t plan on going, just planned on NY this spring, but now I want to be there just to see the reactions. And hopefully recoup some money at the same time.  

What do you guys think?  It’s a forgone conclusion that MS gets bet to an obscene level right?  Country House goes off at a better price than any derby winner in my lifetime?  I think there’s real emotion at play and it will represent itself in dollars at the (insanely slow) Baltimore windows. Two full weeks for the anger to build.  

Think about it, if you keyed the favorite (until the last tick) on top of a couple not impossible  â€œlongshots” in a minimal $10 Tri, that ruling cost you ~$36,000.  And That’s a fairly common wager, most especially on derby day. The anger will be real and MS with his ever growing backstory will become the undisputed “champion” of the people...

[dcost328]

MS is not running in the Preakness with no TC on the line.

[boardedup]

Damn, I didn’t see that.  That will certainly temper the Preakness.  As you can tell from above, I was looking forward to him running.

[sekrah]

I\'m shocked, SHOCKED I tell you that trainers that West uses don\'t think it should be a DQ.