Servis Getting Lawyered Up?

[P-Dub]

toppled Wrote:
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> Speaking of the Big Cap, how about in 2011 when
> Game On Dude stayed up.  I had a win bet on him &
> I never thought he would stay.  Good thing Baffert
> was his trainer.  
>
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BXBxGpcYl7Q

I had Setsuko at 25/1 to win and keyed with Soul Candy in all kinds of wagers and still counting money if he wins.

Thanks for the memories.

[mlnolan00]

Ditto on the empathy for Maximum Security, Luis Saez, Mr. Servis and the Wests.  Not the most cuddly bunch of riffraff\'s but their horse has been nothing but a good boy, even if he\'s green, he\'s still learning and should get better if he (hopefully) stays sound.

Furthermore, his rider Luis has already had to deal with heavy life stuff like his baby bro Juan Saez passing after his horse fell at Indiana Grand.  17yo kid was a decent rider just getting started around these circuits, but now lay prone on the track on a mid-October night, dead before he could drink.  That\'s enough to mess with any 27yo person but then also realize he had to deal with the vitriol and absurd accusations about buzzers and Will Take Charge up at Saratoga.

I just have tons of respect for how Luis has persevered and refocused, and to take this type of win away from a young man like him is soul-crushing.  Here\'s hoping Luis has the wherewithal to keep on-keepin on. But that\'s just my opinion...  Servis just seems like a crabby Grandpa who wants to be left alone so he can enjoy his horses and train sets while he can.  

It was wrong to take that feeling of joy away from the connections from his groom to Mr. West, and that\'s my biggest issue with the DQ.  I can\'t sympathize with folks who so capriciously, meekly, and messily ignored the heft of the event and the lives that would change following their stewards decisions, and, accordingly after 22mins, as Indiana Jones would say, they \"chose poorly\".

Enough downer talk--just for comparison, here\'s the 2011 BC Mile https://youtu.be/7_JY35JjPt8 staring Goldikova at CD.  #spoileralert there\'s quite the late move she makes, and I bet you\'ll NEVER guess how it was handled?😉

[moosepalm]

mlnolan00 Wrote:
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s wrong to take that feeling of joy away from
> the connections from his groom to Mr. West, and
> that\'s my biggest issue with the DQ.  I can\'t
> sympathize with folks who so capriciously, meekly,
> and messily ignored the heft of the event and the
> lives that would change following their stewards
> decisions, and, accordingly after 22mins, as
> Indiana Jones would say, they \"chose poorly\".
>


It\'s fine to feel compassion for the aggrieved, or at least in this case Saez and those doing much of the grunt work who were denied their one taste of glory, but that can never be the standard for decision-making in competition.  Nor does the heft of the event influence that.  Rules can\'t be ignored.  I\'m not saying they were correctly applied here, because I don\'t know, but game changing calls, whether it\'s the final two minutes of the Super Bowl or 7th game of the NBA Championship series, or the Run for the Roses, are part of the game, though one assumes and hopes they are made with a level of discernment commensurate with the moment.  Sentiment needs to be checked at the door.  When you enter the ring, you know that\'s the risk you run.  Wide World of Sports -- the agony of defeat.  That\'s endemic to all sports.

JB, I know you want this to end, so I\'ll pay my fine to you with some kind of vodka concoction at Siro\'s in August, but I can\'t let this slide because we already have too much \"participation trophy\" sentiment infiltrating competition, and I\'m not taking a position on the correctness of the decision.

[BB]

\"Sentiment needs to be checked at the door. When you enter the ring, you know that\'s the risk you run. Wide World of Sports -- the agony of defeat. That\'s endemic to all sports.\"

Second this! Cue Kipling and all those other now politically incorrect bastards.

[TGJB]

The Saints have a much bigger beef.

[JR]

Yes they do. Now that’s an example of political correctness.

[mjellish]

No way this thing gets overturned.  And now we have the horse who won the KY Derby skipping the Preakness, and we have the horse who was PLACED first in KY Derby skipping the Preakness.  All of which is no good for the sport, fans or the TV ratings.  

We also now have \"a precedent\" established for the DQ of the winner of the KY Derby.  Meanwhile we all know there is \"technically\" a horse that fouls another horse almost every year in the KY Derby. What if NFL reps called holding any play it actually occurs?  What about the start of the race?  If they didn\'t take Bayern down a few years ago in the BC Classic then when should a horse come down for interference at the start?

My point is this: Churchill better get out front of this and define what the players and connections of the runners should expect moving forward, and how they expect them to behave after the race moving forward.  There was no way Casse was going to claim a foul and the 1 horse was clearly impacted at a point of the race while he had position and was rallying with a chance to win (not saying whether he would have or not).  But it was clearly a foul, and that part of this shouldn\'t be up for debate.

So as players, what should we expect moving forward?  What about what happens at the start of the race (see almost every KY Derby run in past 15 years), or the run to and through the first turn (see just about every KY Derby run past 15 years).  Is it just the backstretch, 2nd turn and stretch run that \"count?\"

I just want to know what to expect.  That\'s all.  Someone smarter than me or with more time, please let me know.    

What a *hit Show

[TGJB]

As far as I can tell, California (Bayern) and Kentucky have different rules governing fouls. A basic first step would be for everyone to have the same rules.

[mjellish]

Yes, I get it.  Clearly in California the start of the race doesn\'t matter at all.  You can be the 7 horse and wipe out the 6, 5 and 4 and since it isn\'t clear whether this cost them a better a placing it is ok.  Or maybe not if they actually fall down or lose their jockey.  Perhaps the jock on Shared Belief should have pulled up or jumped off.  

In any case, the KY Derby is a roughly run race.  I just want to know what to expect moving forward and Churchill should get out front of it.  That\'s all I\'m saying. As a player, in the biggest race in North America every year, I think that is fair.

I\'m already over this year\'s race and what happened and see no point in debating it.

[joemama]

Not red boarding.  Frequent a dinking establishment and gave the owner a tip on the derby.  Long story short said owner gave me $20 bucks to bet on said bet.  I returned his winning today giving him $750 bucks.  Said owner did not even buy me a beer much less pick up the 5 beer tab.  What would you do?

[Silver Charm]

Get Lawyered up.... :-)

[bluechip21]

Never go back.

[joemama]

I agree.  Known this individual for pert near 15 years when he was just a bartender.  Must be where I live I guess.

[bluechip21]

Give it another try, ask him “how about that race! These assholes won’t shut the F about it on this message board I visit. What do you think?” ... joking aside, I’d take the high road. Maybe he was busy or something. Go there ask him about his $10 wager (my guess is you gave him 2 horses) and give him a hard time about it, if you’re close. ... some people a tone deaf.

[dcost328]

Uniformed rules would be great. So would uniformed testing.

I don\'t think the rules change makes much a difference now as the damage is done.

A DQ has happened in the Derby and you can bet anything you\'ll see more riders take a shot in the future. The bar has been set now and the fact it was set on such unsavory grounds, I have no doubt we will see more of it.

And what standard are they going to use now?

What if we see a move like this at the start of the Derby, is it a DQ when someone way outside comes crashing down to get position?

Or are we back to it\'s a roughly run race and there are 20 horses blah blah blah.

Way more damage making that DQ than not. If you leave MS up, people on the #1 or #18 are going to be over it a lot easier than people on #7 who was clearly best. Maybe you have some back and forth but you have the fact the #1 didn\'t claim foul and the stewards never hit the button. Your argument for #1 goes out the window when the rider doesn\'t claim foul so all you have to worry about is the #18, who was not coming home first no matter what.

People are over it by the Preakness. Maybe it gets mentioned again, maybe it doesn\'t.

Instead we have this, and this isn\'t going away. This will be discussed for years and impact the sport forever.

That is why you don\'t make the same call as you do if the same move happens at Indiana Downs on a Wednesday afternoon.

You have to take the entire scenario into play. Look at refs in basketball. You aren\'t calling a foul most times on a game winning shot unless it is brutal. Nobody wants to see a game end that way.