SS Jockey Club Gold Cup

TGJB,

45.1
109.2
201.4
227.1

Exceller winner by a nose. Gap of 14 lengths to Great Contractor in 3rd.

[jbelfior]

Seattle Slew on his best day would beat anything that they\'ve put on the racetrack in the last 20 years.

MINESHAFT/SJ/etc. would be running plus 5\'s if they had to chase \'Slew through a 1:09 at Belmont.


Good Luck,
Joe B.

[fasteddie]

JB:

Not so sure that would be true; the mile split on that race was 137:3, which means Cordero got a 28:1 breather, and remember, Slew ran against a rabbit, plus Affirmed\'s saddle slipped, making for that pace. Smarty may have been able to stalk him.

This is all apples & oranges, as Slew was a 4yo at the time, and we will not know until the fall, if at all, how Smarty does with older horse.

BTW, Dr. Fager, at level weights, would eat them all for lunch.

>BTW, Dr. Fager, at level weights, would eat them all for lunch.<

I have this fantasy about cloning, Dr. Fager, Seattle Slew and a lM match race. :-)

[fasteddie]

The race would take place AP, and if they don\'t break each other down, the fractions, on a fast track would be:

:22.0  :44.1  1:06.4  1:31.2 NWR  


Fager w/Baeza up, and Slew w/Cordero, 130 lbs

The chart:

Dr. Fager, breaking alertly from the rail, dueled with Seattle Slew through blistering fractions, took command a sixteenth out while under a brisk hand ride to prevail. Seattle Slew, also away alertly matched strides with that rival and gave way grudgingly in a determined effort. Raced with a headwind through the stretch.

[Chuckles_the_Clown2]

Agreed that Dr. Fager would have prevailed

OK, how about 1 1/4?

Dr Fager wasn\'t nearly as good as they stretched out.

[fasteddie]

Fager lost the Champagne at 2 because he was rank; other than that, the only way he ever lost beyond a mile was when Buckpasser and Damascus used rabbits; in Buckpassers\' case, it was Handsome Boy, who was a world record holder at a mile, while Damascus employed Hedevar, a crack sprinter.

Damascus never beat him without a rabbit; the 1968 Suburban (I think) Hedevar was hurt, and Fager wired \'em.

I consider Dr. Fager\'s 1968 season the greatest ever; he was champion sprinter, handicap, turf and horse of the year. No one will ever do that again!

[kev]

That is what is so great about the old timers, they had no other choice. Now days they retire a horse right after he starts winning a few G1\'s, if those horse\'s were around now, they would have been layed up in a breeding shed somewhere way before they ran 30 or 40 or 50 races like some of them did.

I\'ve seen Dr Fager\'s record and I know the history of his matchups with Damascus.

He is very high on my list of all time greats. He\'s certainly the most underrated ever as far as I am concerned.  

Despite that I believe he wasn\'t quite as good going very long as he was in the middle and short distances.

When I think of Seattle Slew\'s Jock Club Gold Cup at 12 furlongs and imagine what would have happened between the two of them at the longer routes, I see Slew having deeper reserves of stamina and winning at the classic distances. At 1M or shorter it\'s all Fager. Perhaps 9 furlongs would be the best match, but I have a funny feeling you like Fager at every distance. :-)



Post Edited (06-10-04 15:27)

[fasteddie]

Under match race conditions, anything can happen; I will concede Slew\'s experience at 12F, while I do believe Fager never tried the distance.

I rank the 78 \'Cup the 2nd greatest race I\'ve ever seen, right behind the \'78 Belmont.

A forgotten race is the 1967 Woodward, dubbed the \"race of the century\" as it pitted 1966 champ Buckpasser, 1967 champ Damascus, and eventual 1968\'s Dr.Fager. They beat the doctor with THREE rabbits! (Handsome Boy, Hedevar, and Great Power) Damascus wins by 10 at Aqueduct (Belmont was being rebuilt).

Remember this: Fager\'s 1:32.1 WR was under 136 lbs, and Baeza never went to the whip, as he hated getting hit. In his United Nation\'s win on the grass, he beat 2 champions (Advocator and Ft. Marcy). He completed this greatest-ever streak by carrying 139 in winning the Vosbergh in 120.1 I will match him against any horse, on any surface, AND at any distance, in it\'s history.

[damonrunyon]

I\'ve been lurking for a while. But the Dr. Fager and Seattle Slew at a mile is such an intriguing topic I have to put my 2 cents in. IMHO they are definitely the two greatest milers ever. Doc still has the world record. Slew only ran once at a mile, in the Champagne where he set a world record for 2 year olds. And Slew also set a world record for 3 year olds going 7 furlongs in his first start at 3.

Some how I don\'t see the Doc beating Slew. Why?

When Dr. Fager ran against Damascus and Buckpasser at 10 furlongs they sent a rabbit against him. They went 22 45 1:09 and the Doc got cooked and cracked, losing by 11 lengths. When Slew went against Affirmed and Exceller at 12 furlongs they sent a rabbit against him. Slew broke through the starting gate. When they restarted he and the rabbit and Affirmed went 22 45 1:09 and Cordero lost his irons for a bit and Slew went wide on the final turn, Exceller snuck by inside by a half, Slew fought back and lost by a nose. One jump past the wire he was in front. Yeah Slew finished up in 1.18. But he was still 20 in front of Affirmed. And I\'ve never seen or heard any horse running 22 45 in another mile and half race and being there at the finish.

After watching that race I find it hard to believe any horse in history could have gone head to head with a fit Slew at any distance and beat him. Not even the great Dr. Fager.

[fasteddie]

Did you see who he beat in that race?? A washed-up Gallant Bob??? PLEEEESE!! And in the slop, no less.

It would be a great race, and it would be Fager\'s at a mile. At 7F, still Fager, On the grass STILL Fager....at a 1 1/2....Slew has the experience, and the Gold Cup was special. I remember Slew getting more ink than Exceller, and rightfully so as he displayed the HEART of a champion that you can\'t put in speed figures.

[damonrunyon]

Slew beat Gallant Bob at 4 going 6. At three he beat White Rammer in 1.20.3 bent double by 9, it was after all just a prep. White Rammer went on to be a multiple graded stakes winner.

Slew and Doc all out at 8 or less - wow imagine the times.

[miff]

John Nerud on Fager.\"There was never a horse who lived who could HOOK DR.FAGER, from the start, and go on to win the race.