Chas04: ha, yup.  On Another note Wes just blitzed a field across the pond by 10+ at 4 1/2. Unreal stuff going on.

jbelfior: This is not about Ironicus being a better horse than Flintshire. This is about trips which decide more turf winners than performance numbers, distance preferences, etc.

Reverse the trips in the Manhattan and you\'re both wrong.

Good Luck,
Joe B.

sekrah: No we\'re not.

milwmike: From the Racing Post - LADY AURELIA put up one of the most devastating displays seen in modern times at Royal Ascot when blitzing to seven-length win in the Group 2 Queen Mary Stakes.

Time was 100.14.  Group 1 older horses ran 102.69 yesterday.  Group 3 3yo males ran 7f in 128.49 the race before LA.  Awesome performance.

Tavasco: My mistake - misread the race distance.

Chas04: I\'m in complete agreement that trips mean everything in turf races. But if the trips were reversed Flintshire would have exploded along the rail when it finally opened from World Approval up while Ironicus would not have been finishing as strong on the outside like Flintshire did. He is just not as fast. Someone might get him one of these races...on an off day when he gets outta bed just not wanting to fire....but he wasn\'t winning Saturdays race if the trips were reversed.

TGJB: As I END this discussion (and \"I\'m right/You\'re wrong\" is especially productive), I just want to point out how lucky Chad Brown, Clement and Castellano are. They manage to win all those turf races while insisting on saving ground.

miff: Flintshire won because he saved ground,Brilliant!!....pssst might wanna look again Flint vs Ironicus

TGJB: I said that where, exactly. Knock it off.

miff: hmmmm. trained by Brown, ridden by Castellano...might wanna check your post

TGJB: I know exactly what I wrote, which a) wasn\'t about any specific race or relationship between two horses, and b) saving ground doesn\'t just mean a rail trip. Castellano did what he could from the outside post.

Time to give it a rest here for a while, Mike. A request, for now.

miff: No problem, you doing me a favor?

Furious Pete: I\'m not sure these power displays helps the quality of the board.