Just following up...

[bobphilo]

Agree that Nyquist ran huge. Interesting that TG who considers ground loss and Timeform US that incorporates pace in their final figures both have Nyuist and Exaggerator with about the same figs. Kinda shows that he was the victim of pace and ground loss, thanks to bonehead instructions from O\'Neill and a bonehead ride from Gutierrez.

[miff]

Having them about equal certainly seems to reflect their whole performance, rather than solely looking at finishing positions.

[TGJB]

Just to make clear I didn\'t invent this particular wheel:

In our Archives section you can find History Lesson II, which is about a book by Tony Betts called \"Across The Board\". It came out 60 years ago, in 1956, there\'s a good chance Miff knew Al (The Brain) Windeman), famous speed handicapper of the day, who was responsible for the following quote (page 303).

\"...you need a track variant, and that differs from race to race. The composition of the soil and the moisture it contains affects a track\'s speed. I check the sprinkler wagon all afternoon, because I know the speed varies with each drink. Tracks near the seashore may change speed with the tides\".

There\'s more, check out the Archives. The book was republished a few years ago, you should be able to find it.

[bobphilo]

I had assumed that the difference in your figures was due to the my understanding that you had broken out the Preakness and Jake had not. I just read an earlier post where you said that you hadn\'t broken out the race so, so much for that explanation. I\'ll have to withdraw that based on further evidence.
Like you said, unless we know what he gave to the other races compared to you we can\'t explain the difference and maybe not even then. All we know is there is obviously a difference in methodology and without knowing both we cannot explain the difference.

[dannyboy135]

Not trying to throw gas on the fire,but I was under the impression that rag and tg were premised on speed, ground loss, track variant, wind etc so if they went a 100 miles an hour early and the race collapsed the figures should reflect such.  Adjusting figures based upon the fields earlier performance seems counter to the speed figure concept
I remember so vividly the discussion about class vs speed figures. It seems the new figure making methodology incorporates class in the numbers?

[TGJB]

Danny-- No.

Bob-- I wasn\'t looking for an answer. I was raising a question, actually two of them. Nobody but Jake can explain what they did and why. The question for everyone else is whether whatever they did is correct, whether it makes sense.

[bobphilo]

Jerry,

I see what you mean, though of course when one puts forward a question one expects at least attempts on an answer. Whether or not we get an answer, the discussion it generates is usually useful. I hope and think this one was.

[Boscar Obarra]

I recall that being an excellent read, as I have a copy of the original and read it many moons ago.

[Topcat]

TGJB Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Just to make clear I didn\'t invent this particular
> wheel:
>
> In our Archives section you can find History
> Lesson II, which is about a book by Tony Betts
> called \"Across The Board\". It came out 60 years
> ago, in 1956, there\'s a good chance Miff knew Al
> (The Brain) Windeman), famous speed handicapper of
> the day, who was responsible for the following
> quote (page 303).
>
> \"...you need a track variant, and that differs
> from race to race. The composition of the soil and
> the moisture it contains affects a track\'s speed.
> I check the sprinkler wagon all afternoon, because
> I know the speed varies with each drink. Tracks
> near the seashore may change speed with the
> tides\".
>
> There\'s more, check out the Archives. The book was
> republished a few years ago, you should be able to
> find it.


The greatest book on racing (focusing on New York\'s Glory Days) in the history of racing.   And it\'s not close.

University of Nebraska Press.   They want $50.  It\'s worth every cent.

Plenty of good handicapping/playing lessons, if you pay attention.

And my God, the man could write.  The last chapter is downright lyrical.

Thank me later.