Synthetics,dumbest knee jerk more ever??

Started by miff, January 05, 2009, 12:04:41 PM

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sighthound

#15
January 07, 2009, 11:47:27 PM
QuoteLook at what is happening right now at Turfway, Santa Anita, and Golden Gate, where injuries are up considerably and tracks are struggling to diagnose and tweak what were supposed to be low-maintenance surfaces.

Give us the injury figures you have for Turfway, SA, and Golden Gate, showing \"injuries are up considerably\" over dirt at those three tracks.  

I\'ll be quite happy to change my mind if you simply show it\'s true.
 
Also pass on the info you have about the lack of decrease in maintenance time and costs for the surfaces at the various tracks.

QuoteAs for the wagering decline, because of other variables (such as the poor economy), there\'s no way to know exactly how much action synthetics have cost the game in decreased bettor confidence.

Then why say, \"drop in handle due to synthetics\" if that\'s only a guess?

miff

#17
January 08, 2009, 07:04:47 AM
The bottom line on all of this is that synth has done very little, if anything, to better the sport in a meaningful way for gamblers, owners, trainers or the animals.Betting has not had any quantum leap at synth tracks and the breakdown/infirmary problem has not improved dramatically so far.
What was the justification to rush to completely changing, instead of just improving/tweaking those existing surfaces.

The \"alarming\" breakdown rate was virtually the same for many years(according to NYRA).Barbaro\'s breakdown on National TV launched the knee jerk public relations initiative by the disingenuous empty suits. The same empty suits did very little to deal with years of illegal juice which was/is a substantial contributor to breakdowns,imo.

When synths first came out,I said it was a garbage surface.As a player,I\'m still of that opinion.


Mike
miff

sighthound

#19
January 08, 2009, 09:37:58 AM
Ill, I\'ve read the current internet discussions and articles.  

Those articles don\'t support the blanket statements made about all synthetic tracks (injury rates have increased, handle has decreased, track maintenance costs have increased).

SA is obviously a special situation, look at Turfway, Kee, Hollywood, Presque Isle - good comparison stats at those tracks over the past few years.

One can\'t deny or ignore the SA track has just spent a terrific three months injury-free in training hours, with horsemen loving the track.  

The current problem is probably related (guessing by what people from the track have said) to the high number of horses going over the surface now (track maintenance).

SA problems now obviously doesn\'t mean all synthetics are crap.

SA likely has a volume problem, which can hopefully be rectified with track maintenance alterations.    

Will it cost that track to have increased maintenance costs over dirt when all is said and done?  We\'ll have to see.  If it will, then rip it out if they want.

It\'s fine people don\'t like the various synthetic tracks (for reasons I find baffling regarding handicapping concerns, but everyone is an individual)

But there is no place in the ongoing discussion for broad, all-encompassing statements about synthetics regarding injury, costs, handle, etc that are simply unsupported by reality.

sighthound

#20
January 08, 2009, 09:41:11 AM
Yes, four breakdowns.  

One was a horse that clipped heels and fell, resulting in euthanasia.   Not a synthetic surface track problem.

So three breakdowns.  How many breakdowns in previous years for training and first days of this meet, pre- Pro-Ride?

How many breakdowns at Aqueduct inner?   At Gulfstream?  Compared to previous meets/years?

TGJB

#21
January 08, 2009, 10:41:15 AM
My only contribution to this conversation (I hope) is that it would have been nice if those questions were answered BEFORE all the tracks rushed to put in synthetics at the same time, instead of trying one first, keeping stats, and getting the kinks out.

That\'s aside from putting in a whole bunch of different ones which increased handicapping variables exponentially.

If anyone is interested in playing SA, I\'m starting to get a handle on it. Treat it like turf, don\'t assume that any horse that has run (or worked) well over anything but turf, Pro-Ride, or (maybe) Poly can handle it. Would that I had known that before the BC.

Meetings out there about the milkshake guys starting up again, and a new (and very expensive, supposedly $800 an ounce) drug being used.
TGJB

P.Eckhart

#22
January 08, 2009, 12:00:37 PM
Customer disquiet has nothing to do with health and safety and everything to do with loss of the dirt bias.

NoCarolinaTony

#23
January 08, 2009, 07:54:55 PM
Dear Dr. Beth,

As with many in this industry, they work off emotion and history and never ever use science  and real data to determine a result/cause effect/etc truly exists.Most players are angle players and this is the angle they see.  Most folks don\'t want to take the time, or have the patience to wait for a real data analysis to be performed. The hard part is that the data is so parsed it\'s hard to get it all into the right hands to perform a real data analysis.

If and when i can get a break away from work, if you can get me access to the data, we can perform all of the analysis needed to see if we have true correlations or just a set of circumstantial evidence.

Nice Win for Richwood Silver the other Day.!!!

NCT

smalltimer

#24
January 10, 2009, 05:11:30 AM
From the Santa Anita web site.

Ron Ellis in Turf races 3 starts and 2 wins;
Julio Canani Mdns/Claimers on the main course 4 starts and 3 wins;
Mike Puype on Main Course (including Friday)  10 starts and 5 wins;
Richard Mandella Route Races 3 starts and 3 wins;

Canani no runners today,
Ellis 1 mcl runner today on the main track,
Puype 2 runners today, 1 Mdn in a Turf Route, 1 mcl on the main track,
Mandella 1 mdn in a sprint on the main track, and an also-eligible at a mile on the turf.
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