Haskins Take On Big Brown vs. Curlin

[Silver Charm]

Pretty good piece here even though he may need a little vasoline for the fence sitting positions he took throughout. But still a very good article/blog by a very good writer and I can tell a dedicated fan.

I see where he quotes TG Chief Jerry Brown as giving Big Brown a Neg 2 1/4 in the Haskell. Sure is a good number and indicates Big Brown ran a big race.

Also means if he had faced Commentator in the Woodward he would have been dusted and probably would have run third behind Student Council.

The Derby winner and the Three Year Old division provides an extra boost of hype and a pulpit for the connections to talk a little louder depending upon who they are. We do not hear Sherriffs (Zenyatta)or Frankel (Ginger Punch) engaging in this kind of smack or Zenyatta being declared maybe one of the greatest mares of all-time. But if it brings in more fans and TV viewers then maybe we need it to start happening up and down the line in every division of racing.

Wouldn\'t that be classy for the sport...........


http://cs.bloodhorse.com/blogs/horse-racing-steve-haskin/archive/2008/08/08/mixed-feelings.aspx

[TGJB]

I actually came damn close to giving BB two points better than that. No way it is worse.

[NoCarolinaTony]

TGJB,

Curious as to why you were considering the two extra points?

NCT

[TGJB]

Having the race faster actually fit better with the day, and would have given Nestle\'s Crunch (whatever) the same # he ran 5 times in a row. But he got beat 20 lengths with a big gap on either side of him, so there was a good chance he didn\'t fire. Both ways gave the second horse a new top, the way I did it paired the third horse\'s top instead of giving him a new one. Tough call, unusual for a GI 3yo race.

[Rick B.]

I\'ve been taking tons of flack from the pro-Curlin and the anti-Big Brown crowds over BB\'s perfomance in the Haskell.

I know what I saw, dammit, and your number verifies that it was one heck of a giant effort.

Thank you.

[TGJB]

Something to think about, and this is from a guy who thought BB would run bad (but not that bad) in the Belmont for other reasons...

Is it a coincidence that the bad race was in NY, and that Dutrow has ruled out running him at Saratoga? The timing for the Woodward is good, and they could get NYRA to kick in a lot of money for a Curlin/BB match. TV would pay for the whole deal.

We\'ll see if he runs at Belmont. By the way, I\'m not offering an opinion on this one-- one bad race doesn\'t prove anything. But that and skipping Saratoga does raise questions.

[NoCarolinaTony]

Thanks for the feedback and explanation. I couldn\'t see it being a -4.5 and to some extent wasn\'t sure right after the race it was even in the negative number range. But after watching the race a couple of times I was inclined to give the horse the benefit of the doubt of an extended effort. He still didn\'t beat very much that day for a million dollars.

Does anyone know offhand what they pay those owners /horses for appearance money?

NC Tony

[Rick B.]

TGJB Wrote:
--------------------------
> Something to think about

Yeah, I noticed that...and now they are looking for a turf race about halfway between now and the BC.

I\'d love it if NYRA could come up with such a race, then see if the BB connections duck that, too -- that might be evidence akin to the \"East German women Olympians shaving twice a day\" analogy.

[BitPlayer]

I\'ve read three things that might be relevant to IEAH\'s aversion to running Big Brown in NY:

Surface:  Shortly after the Belmont, I read a quote from Iavarone suggesting BB may have been done in by the \"Big Sandy\" character of Belmont and that they would seek to keep him on tighter surfaces.  That obviously wouldn\'t apply to a turf race.

Detention Barn:  I read that BB was not happy in the detention barn on Belmont Stakes Day.  There\'s no escaping detention if he runs in NY.  I note that he didn\'t seem to show any adverse effects from the detention barn when he broke his maiden at the Spa.  (Incidentally, I\'m amused that the Del Mar program refers euphemistically to horses running from the \"protection barn.\")

Shoes:  I\'ve read that BB wore turn-downs behind in both Florida and Kentucky.  They\'re illegal in NY (although bends are not).  I don\'t know what he wore in Maryland or New Jersey.  I don\'t know much about shoes, but I\'m guessing that\'s not an issue on the turf, where anything like that is probably prohibited to protect the turf course.

As for running him on the turf, I read a quote from Paul Pompa saying that they\'d like to get him Grade I wins on all 3 types of surfaces.  If they want to run him in a Grade I on the turf between now and the BC, their options are limited.  I find: the Woodbine Mile on 9/7; the Joe Hirsch at Belmont on 9/27; the Clement Hirsch at Oak Tree on 9/27; and the Shadwell Mile at Keeneland on 10/4.

[sighthound]

I think it\'s $25K to the owners, and $25K to the trainer for any horse with a Grade 1 win.   It was listed in the race conditions.

[fkach]

I have no problem with the figure anyone assigned to the Haskell. However, I don\'t think the version of BB we saw in the Haskell is the same horse we saw in the spring.

IMO, the spring version of BB would have had no difficulty at all staying with Coal Play late on the turn and into the stretch. He would have cruised up to an inferior horse like that without even giving his best. He had that kind of speed and acceleration. This is not some even paced horse chasing an exceptional speed demon hoping to wear him down. The evidence that he wasn\'t running very well at that stage is that he wasn\'t even drawing off from Cool Coal Man at that point.

When he bore out in the spring it was a bad sign given his history. But he looked good, ran well, and went out well. Given the problems he had just prior to the Belmont, his performance in the Belmont, bearing out again, and everything else I saw last Sunday, IMO this is not the same horse no matter what the figures say.

I have no strong opinion about how he\'ll run next, but IMO something is still very wrong with him. IMO Curlin would kill this version of BB.