Chuckles you know it's coming.....

[spa]

Enough now and like I said before,get some new material. I want to talk about finding winners not whiners..........................

[Chuckles_the_Clown2]

lol, if you cashed congrats. I passed, though not because I thought Ron couldn\'t be beat. His durability was a consideration with coming back off a big top.

Those horses were not Street Cry and Lido Palace, but that looks to have been another pretty hot effort.

Until I discern something to believe Plech is in check I\'m going to pass on all Lawyer Ron races.

Plech\'s lack of fear indicates blood packing to me. That would be expensive and could explain why he can\'t do it with the barn.

spa Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Enough now and like I said before,get some new
> material. I want to talk about finding winners not
> whiners..........................

[sighthound]

Plech\'s lack of fear indicates blood packing to me. That would be expensive and could explain why he can\'t do it with the barn.

NY has been testing for that since 2003.

[richiebee]

Ah, Chuck, seems like you are wandering in the desert, or maybe the first turn
of the Mellon Turf Course up at the Spa...

In your single minded quest to discredit TAP, you are kicking up clouds of dust
which are not to be mistaken for the smoke from a non- existent fire. I think
your best chance at discrediting the man would be to continue to investigate
the die off of 2002.

\"Our Todd is an awesome Todd\"

Saturday at Monmouth, in the graded Red Bank Handicap at 1 mile on the lawn, Icy
Atlantic equaled the Monmouth course record for one mile on the turf. IA beat a
nondescript field, but did so with some panache. After 3/4s, IA was seventh
(last), about six lengths out of it, and did only what he needed to do to win
under Joe Bravo (23.31, 46.27, 1:09.08, 1:32.42). Though I never trust turf
course teletimers, those are impressive last 1/2, last 1/4 turf fractions, no?
And looking at the other turf routes on the day at Mth (which were contested by
much cheaper runners) this performance may come up very fast after various
adjustments are made by the people who make such adjustments.

Lawyer Ron, Wait a While and Icy Atlantic all with tremendous performances in
the last 5 weeks. Those races by those runners, all of which will figure to be
prominent at Monmouth at the end of October, is probably a bigger story than
TAP\'s overall 10% strike rate at a meet which was unfortunately dominated by
races for cheap turf horses and NYB maidens running at abbreviated distances.

I think your quest to discredit TAP, outside of your presentation of the die
off, is running on fuel which is leanly blended fact wise, yet I am certain that
you will continue.

              \"Still the searcher/
               must ride the dark horse/
               racing alone in his fright\"

               N. Young (no question about \"doping\" there)

[Chuckles_the_Clown2]

Richie, Plech has not been as restrained at Monmouth. The record there does not surprise me.

Sighthound says NYRA has been testing for Bloodpacking since 2003. I believe he\'s referring to EPO, though I don\'t believe the test can detect EPO at all. I believe it detects a by product of its use. And I\'m not convinced its been available since 2003. I think its only been in the last year or two that it has been available at all.

I\'m referring to blood packing in the traditional Tour De France sense of the word. Red Blood Cells and Hemoglobin. Such involves Transfusions either from a donor or Blood  removed from the subject earlier and then transfered back after the subject regenerates blood to replace that removed. It would take some time and would be expensive, but in the one form it would be essentially undetectable. If he\'s into transfusions now, what you\'ll see is a drop off in his overall strike rate due to the expense and difficulty of the procedure. But, his best horses. Horses with talent before, will be doubly and triply tough in the big races and will produce fast times and recover a bit better. If you doubt that, ask the admitted Tour De France packers.

The time of the race needs some review here. The 1.48.60 was a good time for Saratoga, but it was nearly 2 seconds slower than the Whitney. However, the margin of victory was even more impressive. The Second Place horse couldn\'t crack 1.50 and that may indicate that the others did not fire their best race. Plech\'s other runner finished last. Wandering Boy faced pace pressure from Lawyer Ron and spit the bit. Brass Hat and Diamond Stripes ran similar races to the Whitney, with Brass Hat perhaps still coming around. In other words, it looks like the previous race (The Whitney) took a toll on the participants that ran in both races. That is, except for the victor.

I\'m not sure the figure will be as fast as the Whitney, but what you have to take note of was how Plech came into this race and how Ron alone overcame that last effort. As I said, until something breaks I\'ll bet against Plech, but not this horse. He\'s \"found\" another dimension.

 



from . I\'m Not.richiebee Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Ah, Chuck, seems like you are wandering in the
> desert, or maybe the first turn
> of the Mellon Turf Course up at the Spa...
>
> In your single minded quest to discredit TAP, you
> are kicking up clouds of dust
> which are not to be mistaken for the smoke from a
> non- existent fire. I think
> your best chance at discrediting the man would be
> to continue to investigate
> the die off of 2002.
>
> \"Our Todd is an awesome Todd\"
>
> Saturday at Monmouth, in the graded Red Bank
> Handicap at 1 mile on the lawn, Icy
> Atlantic equaled the Monmouth course record for
> one mile on the turf. IA beat a
> nondescript field, but did so with some panache.
> After 3/4s, IA was seventh
> (last), about six lengths out of it, and did only
> what he needed to do to win
> under Joe Bravo (23.31, 46.27, 1:09.08, 1:32.42).
> Though I never trust turf
> course teletimers, those are impressive last 1/2,
> last 1/4 turf fractions, no?
> And looking at the other turf routes on the day at
> Mth (which were contested by
> much cheaper runners) this performance may come up
> very fast after various
> adjustments are made by the people who make such
> adjustments.
>
> Lawyer Ron, Wait a While and Icy Atlantic all with
> tremendous performances in
> the last 5 weeks. Those races by those runners,
> all of which will figure to be
> prominent at Monmouth at the end of October, is
> probably a bigger story than
> TAP\'s overall 10% strike rate at a meet which was
> unfortunately dominated by
> races for cheap turf horses and NYB maidens
> running at abbreviated distances.
>
> I think your quest to discredit TAP, outside of
> your presentation of the die
> off, is running on fuel which is leanly blended
> fact wise, yet I am certain that
> you will continue.
>
>               \"Still the searcher/
>                must ride the dark horse/
>                racing alone in his fright\"
>
>                N. Young (no question about
> \"doping\" there)

[fkach]

Two notes.

1. You start with the assumption that the Whitney took a toll on all the horses other than LR because it was so fast, but reasonable speed figure makers actually disagreed on how fast it was to begin with.

2. I think it\'s a real shame Invasor went down because the emergence of LR would have given the greatness committee the evidence it needed to determine his status as a great horse. ;-)

[sighthound]

Ever hear of antibodies, Chuck?

[Chuckles_the_Clown2]

sighthound Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Ever hear of antibodies, Chuck?

Correct, with EPO (or at least with certain forms of it) there is an antibody trail. EPO went through an evolution right at about the time Plech experienced his die off. There were natural and synthetic variations. One had more severe side effects, though I can\'t remember which. You would think it would be synthetic, but I\'m far less certain of that.

The thing you have to keep in mind, is that once someone gets involved with tinkering chemically and has success they are going to keep on the subject even if certain doors become closed to them. The whole chemical performance issue is really very simple. Its about blood, oxygen, fuel and fatigue. Plech lost those horses in 2002 due to tinkering with those variables. I assure you with the success they have had, they are not done tinkering and those last two efforts by Lawyer Ron, especially yesterday, coupled with Plech\'s pre race comments indicate to me they are into the next phase. With Ron they have a wonderful subject. I\'m sure some will try to maintain that Ron\'s new exercise rider and patient style are what wore Wandering Boy out.

That race off the Whitney, was amazing. Interpret it as you wish.