Research Question

[trackjohn]

What do you mean most?

[SteveB]

Brokers Tip\'s only win in his career came in the 1933 Kentucky Derby when his jockey and the jockey on Head Play were fighting each other down the stretch.

[TGJB]

You gotta have priorities...

[SoCalMan2]

FrankD. Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> As Jimbo and I continue our Practial Joke debate
> in private, all in good taste of course😎 I
> even got Uncle Bill involved in this one.
>
> Anyone out there know if any horse has ever won
> the Derby without winning a 2 turn race
> beforehand?


I would guess that Sea Hero did not win two turns before his Derby win.  I couldn\'t find his PPs, but I recall he had won the Champagne and almost nothing after that coming into the Derby.

Also, I would point out that when I started in this game prior to the Breeders Cup, any New York horse pointed for the Derby really only had two chances to try two turns before the Derby....those were the Garden State Futurity and the Wood Memorial (Secretariat was only 1 for 2 at two turns before the Derby).  It used to be the Champagne decided the two year old champion and it was one turn.  The Remsen was not the big deal in those days the way it is now.  After the Champagne, the two big races were the Laurel Futurity (which was a really big deal back in the day) and the Garden State Futurity.  The Remsen was for the second stringers that couldn\'t hack it in those races.  The Laurel Futurity was 1 and 1/16, but it was out of the dog leg chute they used to have at Laurel (so the race was 1.25 turns).  Secretariat and Affirmed and Alydar ran in the Laurel Futurity.  I think that Seattle Slew was supposed to but got a minor injury before the race.  The Gotham was run as a one turn mile back in those days.

[Fairmount1]

Here is another research question if anyone can help me out.  

Who was the last Derby winner to win his debut at 4 1/2 furlongs?

[sekrah]

None that I\'m aware of, but Nyquist won at 5f.  Don\'t see how relevant such an angle would be.

[Fairmount1]

Thanks sekrah on Nyquist.  I am just curious as I agree it isn\'t necessarily a relevant winning angle.  

My guess is that the answer to this question dates back to \"days gone by.\"  Win early pedigrees of April and May for 2yo\'s typically are not running in the Triple Crown the following year.  

This year\'s likely favorite, Classic Empire, won his CD debut at 4.5 furlongs in early May last year.

[Molesap]

I only have data accessible to 1988 and there is no Derby winner since then to win their debut at 4.5f. Here were the closest horses that came to winning debut at 4.5f prior to winning Kentucky Derby:

Nyquist – won at 5f
Grindstone – won at 5f
I'll Have Another – won at 5.5f
California Chrome - second in debut at 4.5f, then won at 4.5f next out