Pletcher....keeneland

[TGJB]

That\'s disengenuous, you\'re smarter than that. What I said is you had no basis for the statement. And I showed that the fact there are not positives has proven to be completely irrelevant. And I made the point completely clear.

Until drug tests are published, in detail, showing how many horses are being tested, for what, by what method, who they are, and what the actual test results are, there\'s no basis for even an opinion on this subject. By anyone, other than those using the kind of methods I use. The ones Rick Arthur and others respect enough to ask me whether someone in their jurisdiction is doing something.

[touchgold]

Ok, I am in no way an expert, and correct me if I am wrong, but didnt rudy rod start moving up horses big time a few years ago? Now 3 violations suddenly. It seems to me all these huge move up guys MAY eventually test positive, but they get away with it for way too long. So to say that most cheaters are getting caught is comical. And even if they do, they  get to steal purses for years first.

[makomaniac]

Now that Belmont will be opening I suspect that Rudy and Jacobsen will tone it down a little bit.As a year round NY bettor I can say that those two have ruined NY horseracing.
 I know from previous years that Pletcher will have trouble duplicating Gulfstream numbers at  Belmont.The cheating in the game is out of control.The sport is in jeopardy as die hard players are losing confidence.
Steve Asmussen can not win anymore. Another positive for him and he will be in the same boat with Dutrow.Hard to believe that the trainers that lose horses via the claim box with severe problems don\'t go the stewards and file complaints and demand explanations how the problems were corrected overnight. The sheets will at the least provide a visual aid for the incompetents that call themselves stewards.

[vp612]

Are you saying to me that Ness,Zladie ,Maker,Navarro,and a bunch of others are just moving horses up with good training, I refuse to beleive that.

[Lost Cause]

vp612 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Are you saying to me that Ness,Zladie
> ,Maker,Navarro,and a bunch of others are just
> moving horses up with good training, I refuse to
> beleive that.


Speaking of Maker, you can start a whole new thread with what he has been doing at Keeneland..Been around in this game too long for that premium hay and oats theory..

[Fairmount1]

Sight,

no,no, no....if good ol bobby baffert was truly \"troubled\" (which you took a shot at me for using that word but that\'s the words he used that was quoted in a bloodhorse/espn/etc articles mentioning his PR firm\'s release), then he would release the medication/vet records for the horses that died.....this has nohing to do with claiming races/issues....these horses are dead.

But he won\'t, see below Bob\'s words that don\'t match up with the inaction of not providing Uzal the info he needs to truly figure it out....hmmmmm.  
___________________

\"The safety of my horses has been and always will be the most important thing to me,\" Baffert said. \"The mysterious deaths are personally troubling and of great sadness to me, my family and the owners of the horses. My heart goes out to the horses\' owners.\"

\"I am working with everyone, including the California Horse Racing Board, my veterinarians and staff at the tracks, to find causes for the unexplained deaths,\" the trainer said. \"California Horse Racing Board\'s Bo Derek and the state\'s equine medical director, Dr. Rick Arthur, have made it clear that nothing I have done has caused any horse I have trained to suffer equine sudden death syndrome. My professional focus will continue to be to provide the best care for my horses, with constant concern for their well-being.\"

\"I hope that research by CHRB and its pathologists will discover information helpful to understanding the reasons that I, and many of my colleagues, have had horses suffer this unfortunate fate,\" Baffert said.


But Dr. Uzal doesn\'t make it sound like the Hall of Fame trainer is working with everyone does he???  


"We have not been able to find the cause," Dr. Francisco Uzal of the California Animal Health and Food Safety Laboratory System said at a meeting of the board's medication committee. "We have done extensive toxicological studies. We have done, of course, all sort of other things — pathology and histology. We don't know what's going on."

Uzal acknowledged that researchers had been stymied in their search for answers to the sudden deaths because of the lack of information from trainers and their veterinarians.

"The information of medication that we get is still sketchy," Uzal said at the medication meeting. "But if we can have a summary of medication, that would help a lot."

[miff]

Fair,

There is an unconfirmed report that Baffert did turn over the medical records of the dead horses over the objection of an owner/trainers group re setting a precedent of disclosure of their private property(medical records)

It was said that the odds of one trainer having that many deaths in a 2 year period is like 150,000-1. Rumor talk of Baffert surrendering his license until this is figured out being \"lawyered up\"

No one believes there is a remote possibility of the Baffert horse deaths being a coincidence,yet the investigating team finding no common thread.Super jugs and like stuff being looked at as culprits in altering electronic working of heart.

Bo Derek and Rick Arthur said to \"alibing\" for Baffert,several very prominent trainers/owners pissed off over soft treatment of Baffert suggesting that anyone else would be hung out to dry.

Situation called powder keg by Cali horseman pal.

Mike

[phil23]

The good Doctor (who is at CD...) is on Byk show right now, talking testing and TAP\'s horses. Starts about 1/2 way through second hour.

[TGJB]

Interesting. If he turned over the records, why would he keep that quiet?

[miff]

Very strange,Baffy should have held a press conference to announce he turned over vet records of dead horses.Has a PR firm and legal counsel instead?

Ray P told me he reached out to Dr.Arthur but did not get a direct answer to that direct question....smells!

Long time NY trainer said 7 dropping dead in 2 years....impossible, but it happened.

[makomaniac]

The industry is afraid to go after a high profile trainer like Pletcher. Can you imagine the black eye horse racing would get if Pletcher is ever charged with a major violation and is supended. When Asmussen was given his last suspension and warned that his next would result in a lifetime ban(Dutrow), he suddenly forgot how to train and can\'t even get a 2 or 3yo to run competively. Look at the expensive horseflesh that hasn\'t lifted their feet in California over the last two years. The next guy they need to look at is Maker.He has recently made a mockery of the game.
 California is probably the cleanest venue in the last year. Mullens and O\'Neil are back to being 12% trainers as is Sadler and Gaines. Baffert will slowly slide back to a reasonable percentage also after this latest fiasco.
I just dont understand why the trainers and owners who are playing by the rules, don\'t go public with a horses physical issues when they lose a horse via the claim box and within two weeks the animal is miraculously cured of all prior ailments.

[makomaniac]

Just think about the Lance Armstrong issue of PEDs. They knew he was doing it. They had informants who provided information. They could not prove it and lab testing failed. He denied, denied, denied and had the audacity to sue those who were accusitory and was awarded money in the proceeding.  HISTORY repeats itself! Bettors who play every day are way more informed than any group of stewards or upper management at racetracks that have been placed there through political patronage with no credentials

[plasticman]

Mak, agree with your points and want to add that bettors care more. Much more. Their betting life depends on these races being clean.

[plasticman]

Miff, its troubling that Baffert has had all these horse deaths as well as horses who almost died from \'mysterious\' causes but to me, what\'s more troubling is that nobody seems to be doing anything about it and nobody seems to care.

A person either believes that Baffert\'s horses died of natural causes and its just a billion to one shot (or, 150,000-1) that this happened OR its something deeper and more sinister.

If Baffert knows for sure that nothing ever entered these horses systems who died, it makes absolutely no sense why he wouldnt try to clear his name by releasing information about their treatments.

Or, you can take the other approach, which is the one Baffert seems to be taking and that is release one statement from a PR firm professing your sadness for the dead horses and mostly, stay out of the spotlight until this all blows over.