flashpoint & dutrow

[Rick B.]

martoon Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Rick.. You better believe you can get a $2000 vet
> bill for a nickel claimer.  Problem is you often
> don\'t know they a nickel until you pay that out
> for a lot of months too.

Well, I can\'t help an owner that leaves his legs open, then gets denutted.
 
Spending $2K in vet work on a nickel claimer is like putting leather seats in an \'85 Corolla, to my way of thinking...and if a trainer did that with one of my horses without authorization, he\'d have to eat the bill himself.

If owners are willing to put up with that bullshit, there will always be a long line of trainers waiting to fleece them.

And I still think I\'d do better with a winning trainer.

[P-Dub]

Rick B. Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> martoon Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Rick.. You better believe you can get a $2000
> vet
> > bill for a nickel claimer.  Problem is you
> often
> > don\'t know they a nickel until you pay that out
> > for a lot of months too.
>
> Well, I can\'t help an owner that leaves his legs
> open, then gets denutted.
>  
> Spending $2K in vet work on a nickel claimer is
> like putting leather seats in an \'85 Corolla, to
> my way of thinking...and if a trainer did that
> with one of my horses without authorization, he\'d
> have to eat the bill himself.
>
> If owners are willing to put up with that
> bullshit, there will always be a long line of
> trainers waiting to fleece them.
>
> And I still think I\'d do better with a winning
> trainer.


Rick,

Buy a horse and show everyone the proper way to run a stable.

Sounds like these guys have lots of experience owning horses, something you don\'t have.  Criticizing them, without having been in their shoes, is a bit disingenuous.

I have friends that have owned/own horses, and I have heard the same stories from them.  It aint easy.

[Rick B.]

P-Dub Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Rick,
>
> Buy a horse and show everyone the proper way to
> run a stable.
>
> Sounds like these guys have lots of experience
> owning horses, something you don\'t have.
> Criticizing them, without having been in their
> shoes, is a bit disingenuous.
>
> I have friends that have owned/own horses, and I
> have heard the same stories from them.  It aint
> easy.

Having \"experience\" in owning horses doesn\'t impress me a bit if the owners don\'t also have common sense. Maybe they just have alot of money.

A monthly $2K vet bill for a $5K claimer? Must I really point out how goofy that is? (NEWSFLASH to anyone paying this: You are being ROBBED.)

I don\'t need to own a horse to spot a bad deal, and I don\'t need to lose gobs of cash to comment on what a bad idea that is. So-called \"experience\" can be overrated.

[martoon]

Hey Rick...You are making my point for me...  i am saying you can\'t afford these high percentage trainers you like so much for a cheap claimer.  But forget $5k, you can\'t afford to use them for a $20k claimer either...  You better have a good allowance or stakes horse and it better stay healthy.

You have stars in your eyes for these Super trainers but you don\'t want to pay their rates?  They won\'t even answer your call unless you have an expensive well meant animal to work with.

Nobody starts out intending to give Pletcher and Dutrow a low claimer.  Unfortunately however statistics say that\'s where 90% of these horses is going is going to end up.  You only see the tip of the iceberg.  These guys have gotten rid of most of their crap stock before you ever see them.  How many horses do you think Pletcher or Dutrow have start their yearling breaking in their program before you see a Soldat or Flashpoint on your TV screen.  Hundreds.

It goes more like this..  $100 a day and  all kinds of vet bills for months before he even runs.  Then he does run poorly and you make some excuses and adjustments, he runs poorly again. After a few of these you realize he\'s a claiming animal.  But you\'re 8 months into it already.  So yeah you got denutted as you say, but nobody admitted he was a $5k claimer until today.  Then you might move him to a cheaper trainer who was probably an assistant to Pletcher or Dutrow in the past.  They charge a cheaper day rate which seems like a good deal, but those vet bills have a way of creeping up on you again as they apprenticed in this style.    Asmussen is the only one of the so called super trainers who even keeps and runs the low level horses as a part of his business plan.  He runs bottom level stuff every day and you would not enjoy those vet bills.  He  doesn\'t cut his rate or ask you if you\'d prefer less meds or vet work for your low level animal if that\'s what it turns out to be.

I guess the point is that unless you have regal stock, at least that lower win percentage low vet bill trainer will get you to that all important point of finding out if your horse is talented at all for much much less money.  If it\'s a good horse, you have options.  And you\'re lucky.

[miff]

The Hunt For Red Tricky continues! They left out the part that xyzaline is generally used and permitted 96 hours out, from memory.Tricky definitely targeted more for being an emabarrassment to Racing than anything,imo.


AP: Dutrow Faces Loss of License

Kentucky Derby (gr. I)-winning trainer Rick Dutrow Jr. has some explaining to do.

New York racing authorities deemed Dutrow "obnoxious" and "unbecoming" and ordered him to show why he should not be suspended, lose his license, and be kicked off state tracks after years and dozens of sanctions.

The New York State Racing and Wagering Board suspended Dutrow twice last month. The suspensions totaled 90 days for hypodermic needles in his barn and for a winning horse\'s positive test for a banned painkiller at Aqueduct last year.

Dutrow has appealed and the board scheduled hearings for March 30-31.

On March 3, the board also questioned the conduct and character of the trainer who won the 2008 Derby and Preakness (gr. I) with Big Brown  , taking the unusual step of considering revoking Dutrow\'s license. The notice says Dutrow is a "person whose conduct at race tracks in New York state and elsewhere has been improper, obnoxious, unbecoming, and detrimental to the best interests of racing."

It goes on to say his "character and general fitness are such that your participation in pari-mutuel racing is inconsistent with the public interest" based on recent suspensions and "your history of rule violations."

Dutrow\'s lawyer insisted there is no merit to the claims.

"When all the facts are in, and the witch hunt is over, we are confident that Mr. Dutrow will be totally vindicated," lawyer Gerard Romski wrote in an e-mail to The Associated Press.

The notice comes two weeks after Ed Martin, president of the Association of Racing Commissioners International, sent a letter to the board asking it to "revisit the question" of whether Dutrow should be allowed to "participate in racing at all."

 Martin, a former executive director of the NYSRWB, said that since 1979, Dutrow has been sanctioned "at least 64 times for various rules violations in nine different states at 15 racetracks."

The most recent accusations:

• Dutrow\'s horse Fastus Cactus tested positive for the drug butorphanol--a pain killer--after winning the third race at Aqueduct Nov. 20.

• Three hypodermic needles were found in Dutrow\'s barn at Aqueduct Nov. 3.

• Three unlabeled syringes were "loaded with the drug xyzaline" in Dutrow\'s desk at Aqueduct\'s Barn 10. The drug listed as Xylazine can be used as a muscle relaxer.

• Improper conduct based on previous accusations and "history of rules violations."

• Dutrow has won more than a dozen training titles in New York over the past 10 years. He won the Derby and Preakness with Big Brown, but the horse was pulled up and finished last in the Belmont Stakes (gr. I). He also trained 2005 Horse of the Year Saint Liam and currently trains Derby prospect Flashpoint, winner of the Feb. 26 Hutcheson

[TGJB]

I don\'t know about the rest of it, and as I have said here before the positives they actually do get are seldom the real issue with any of these guys. But the needles and the huge TCO2 overage in Kentucky a couple of years ago are serious business.