jerry, or anyone else...need a history lesson..

[CHOWDERMAN]

what were your thoughts and the majority of sheet user thoughts when woody stephens ran conquistador cielo in the met mile on a monday and then the belmont stakes that following saturday...did the horse have that good numbers to pull it off...did you think stephens was out of his mind...i was a wee lad at the time...just trying to gauge how ballsy a move this was compared to shireffs babying of zenyatta...who in recent memory has come closest to this kind of move with a stakes caliber horse and pulled it off...i believe in 2003 clement had a turf mare win a stakes on a boggy turf course at belmont on a sunday against males, then wheeled her back six days later against mares and won a stakes again on a soft turf...thanks....

[TGJB]

Don\'t remember what I did with CC in that Belmont, can barely remember the last one. He was much the fastest 3yo that year, I think he paired up and won by a pole.

Also don\'t think he made too many more starts. That\'s really the part we haven\'t talked about much here-- not just what they do when they come back on short rest, but how it affects them long term, even if they don\'t break down.

[CHOWDERMAN]

thanks...looking back to last year, was rachel coming back on 15 days rest to win the preakness the race that may have  prevented her from actually improving her thorograph numbers this year....or was there no way for a filly to improve as a four year old off her numbers...

[FrankD.]

He won the Dwyer and Jim Dandy after the Belmont and was retired after running 3rd in The Travers to Runaway Groom. I believe he was syndicated for a record at that time of 36 million dollars.

$ 10.20 in The Belmont Stakes winning by 14 lengths, my first ever $ 500.00 bet as a 23 year old know it all !!!

[SoCalMan2]

Interesting character to bring up on the question of sporty spotting.  When he had the predominant horse, he was as wimpy as the rest of them.  However, when Woody did not have the predominant horse, he was not afraid to take chances. However, he also knew when he was beat and not afraid to take a pretty dang good horse to the lesser races.  Among others inspiring this comment are -- Devil\'s Bag (about the wimpy handling of whom Joe Hirsch took Woody to task on (people noted it when Hirsch died recently)), and Smarten (a pretty good three year old who could have brought home checks in the triple crown behind Spectacular Bid, but Woody knew he could not contend with the big horse and there was a lot of money out on the road for a good three year old).  As to Conquistador Cielo, my perception is that he was behind the 3 year old leaders (Gato Del Sol and Aloma\'s Ruler) and Woody felt he was playing catch up when he brought him back to the Belmont.  My recollection in those days was that you had to win at the distance to be the 3 yo champ and no matter how impressive a Met Mile win for a three year old is, it ain\'t going to get you there with other horses winning at classic distances.  One interesting side note -- Woody was bringing CC back from an injury and he ran him in an allowance at Pimilico before the Met Mile (I do not remember if it was Preakness Day or close to Preakness Day), but my point is he did not have a lot of rest going into the Met Mile to start as it came pretty quick after his strange prep for the race.  The spacing that horse must have gone through from May to August is just unheard of these days -- but Woody probably knew his time was limited and he had to do as much as he could in the limited time to get up.

[Silver Charm]

Woody ran Forty Niner in the old Fla Derby date (early March). Then he shortened him to 7 to get him to rate at the beginning of Keeneland and then ran in the Lexington Stakes. After that there was the Derby.

Forty Niner was a small tiger with long claws. You didn\'t want to get into a fight with him. Spacing like that these days would get you crucified!

[FrankD.]

I just looked this up !
I thought CC ran in the Tesio Stakes the usual Preakness prep ?
He ran in Allowance races at Pimlico on May 8th and at Belmont May 19th, The Met on May 31st and the Belmont Stakes on June 6th.
4 races in 29 days and won them all along with his next 2 stakes races. I guess that is a training job. The great ones seem to

Bad analogy with Devils Bag SoCal, he was syndacated for 48 million after his 2yr. old season and the owners did not want to get him beat. Also that was the beginning of Woody\'s health issues that winter in Florida. Phil Gleaves did most of the work with Devils Bag in Florida.

I\'ll admit to being biased when it comes to Woody. I had some great chats with him at Saratoga in the 80\'s when I was learning how not to be a fool with his money. He was always willing to talk, grab your racing form and show you  something.

We\'ve had a lot of dialogue about bounces and reactions of late and I guess I\'m a bit more of a Kool Aid drinker the past 2 years since I\'ve really dived into the Thoro\'s. If I lived in the Gladiator days I would always have voted DIE ! I\'m going against the big reaction number 90 % of the time for the simple reason that those type horses are generally short odds, so what are you giving up ?

I\'m surprised that no one has mentioned Discretely Mine\'s race on Saturday ? He was coming of a huge top in 26 days, runs a .44 half and stagers home the final 3 panels in 39.05 and wins by open lenghts ! Granted we had a suped up speed bias on Friday and really big one Saturday but that\'s crawling home.

[miff]

\"I\'m a bit more of a Kool Aid drinker\"

Frank D,

Isn\'t it a relief to \"come out of the closet?\" Just kidding of course, but on a serious note regardless of what you believe, never tinker with any appproach that makes you a winner.

Good luck

Mike

[HP]

\"I\'m surprised that no one has mentioned Discretely Mine\'s race on Saturday ? He was coming of a huge top in 26 days, runs a .44 half and stagers home the final 3 panels in 39.05 and wins by open lenghts ! Granted we had a suped up speed bias on Friday and really big one Saturday but that\'s crawling home.\"

Speaking of Kool Aid, that\'s how much faster Discreetly Mine was than the others on TG, right?!  Only question really was could he do it again?  And was the race worth playing if you thought D\'Funnybone would fire for a $10 exacta?  I figured DMine might back up a bit but 26 days seemed like a decent break, and as a 3 year old he was eligible to run another good one.  

I think nyc posted about show bet on Latigo Shore?  

That\'s all the Kool Aid I have for today!  HP