The Old Debate: Rags V. T-Graphs

[Dana666]

Interestingly, in the last year or so I have seen many old time sheet users I know abandon RAGS for T-Graphs, and they are all raving about how much better T-Graphs are. These are guys are really hard-nosed and closed-minded types who would have never switched years ago. They all say the same thing, no comparison. For example, at Hollywood today in the feature, Jerry had the #2 filly running a 4 at Arlington and Rags gave the filly an 11 - huge differences like that are now too glaringly apparent to ignore, even for hard core Rag types. Rags had most of the fillys even with T-Graphs really singling out the #2 as way faster 6 points faster than the next horse. I think you\'ll find RAGS fading into obscurity in the coming days. I don\'t know if its good or bad b/c now your betting against everything using T-Graphs, better if they use RAGS in these cases, but the combination of the quality and innovations of T-Graph w/the tight economy has really destroyed Rags business.

[TGJB]

Yeah, things have changed a lot since the early 90\'s. After the 92 (?) BC at Belmont, where we (based on my published comments) had an unbelievable day, we tried to give out free sets of our data to their guys so they could compare. Some of those meatheads made a big deal about throwing them against the wall or in the garbage can.

I think what\'s keeping Ragozin alive is the ridiculous deal they give horsemen, who actually end up paying less for data than bettors. This is especially true of the big name guys (essentially they pay monthly for sheets, regular price or less, and get all other data on their horses, stake noms, and horses they are considering buying, for free). Ragozin has no consulting business to protect, and if 50 or so of those guys are buying 1-3 tracks, even wholesale, it\'s a real revenue stream. And it works for the trainers, who are going into their own pockets to pay for it.

We, on the other hand, do have a consulting buiness (and bill owners, not trainers), and it\'s the part of the business I enjoy the most, by far. I really, really don\'t want to have to hurt that...

[Rick B.]

Dana666 Wrote:
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> For example, at Hollywood today in the feature,
> Jerry had the #2 filly running a 4 at Arlington
> and Rags gave the filly an 11 - huge differences
> like that are now too glaringly apparent to ignore,
> even for hard core Rag types.

When I found out about this discrepancy, I knew I didn\'t have to fool around with the P6 carryover, or anything else yesterday.
 
A TG \"number power\" horse like Dawnie that pays $7.00 is a gift -- if you know how hard to \"unwrap\" it. Rags, schmags. Thanks, TG!

[covelj70]

Rick,

It\'s funny you mention this because when I looked at the sheets, I originally thought, why bother with the pick 6 when I can load up on the filly in the feature.  

We had actually made a run at buying that filly after her maiden win but we got priced out so I know she had vetted well after her big maiden win and I figured she would air against this (it actually wound up being closer than I thought).

Anyway, I eventually decided to go for the pick 6 instead of only playing her in the race only because I figured she would wind up going off at 4-5 despite her morning line given her dominance on the sheets.  I didn\'t realize that the Rags guys had her so much slower or I would have just played her straight up.

Long story not so short, it all worked out in the end as I wound up singling her and the Mandella maiden (who barely held on by a nose) and went deep in the other legs and got lucky in the pick 6.  I had both of the horses in the dead heat so the payout actually wound up pretty good and much better than if I had played the filly straight.

Bringing the post back to the original point, I have convinced everyone I look at to buy horses with to forget that the rags even exist and just to use TG\'s.  Oddly, most of the \"horseman\" (agents, etc) that buy the rags don\'t even realize that they assume that the track doesn\'t change during the day.  Most horsemen believe that the track changes over a card (with good reason) and once I explain to even very seasoned agents this one difference, I don\'t need to convince them too much more that JB\'s figs are the ones we should be using when we are thinking about buying horses privately.