There Goes The No-Hitter

[TGJB]

   Over 20 posts letting Friedman have it have been deleted so far from the Ragozin board for his attack on me about Graph Racing-- there could have been others we missed, since they are taking them down as soon as they see them. Florida Jim (Jerry Jr., Jim humor) is the first to post taking Friedman\'s side. Jim: The one sided nature of the first round is the reason Friedman posted again, backpedaling as fast as he can.


Numbers correspond with Friedman\'s:

1- I said the results were in line with the average results for both partnerships and other racing endeavors, meaning all ownership of horses. I don\'t have current figures, but as of a couple of years ago I believe annual purses in this country were about $1 billion, while expenses were about $2.5 billion. That doesn\'t include cost of the horses-- so the average ownership of a horse results in a loss of 100% of the investment, plus expenses.
   With that in mind, go back and look at the results of the 5 year study on this site, which includes profit and loss figures. Friedman conveniently neglected to respond to that part of my post, and my request to publish similar records for the Ragozin operation. The size of the sample in our study is about 15 times that of the Graph Racing Venture Friedman attacks. If you add the results thus far to those of the 5 year study you will not significantly affect the study. And yes, I recognize that doesn\'t help those that invested, which is why I haven\'t sent a bill.

2- Here Friedman is trying to spin fast enough to get the egg off his face. He accused me of ripping off clients-- in fact, I haven\'t taken a dime in compensation to date.

3- This one is good for a laugh. Friedman originally said \"the investers (sic) pay ($20,000) for the right of being lured in\". The implication is that each investor is being charged that, when in fact (even aside from Friedman rounding the amount off to make it bigger), it was a flat, one time, 3% charge on the entire partnership, designed to reimburse Roger for part of what he laid out in legal fees. It  works out to about $670 per person.

   Aside from the issue of misrepresentation, look at how that 3% stacks up with what Ragozin tried to charge me, which caused me to walk:

Rising Graph: One time fee of 3% of capitalization for a 3 year partnership. Investors get data, management, and administration.

Ragozin: 10% of capitalization PER YEAR, just for data-- I was to supply my own expertise, and work.

Both deals had other aspects that could be worth differing amounts with different result scenarios, but you would be hard pressed to find one where Ragozin wouldn\'t be getting many times what I would.

And, of course, Ragozin wasn\'t being reimbursed for laying out money.

4- Here Friedman admits he got it wrong, then goes on to imply that I\'m in a conflict of interest situation-- advising one client to buy what I\'m advising another to sell. I\'m not, and Len, you are an ass, and transparent. You were being clever, for legal reasons, in phrasing that as a question, rather than as a statement.  

5- Anyone who has been a member of a multiple ownership enterprise can look at our compensation and post here as to how it stacks up with other ventures. Again, I don\'t know of any others in my position who are compensated ONLY based on results, and I am able to do what I do because of my record-- let\'s see the records of any other ventures.

And, I haven\'t even charged Graph Racing.

6- Jeff Langbert and I were the investors in Friedman\'s ill-fated venture that preceded the Heard Stable, which preceded Tresvant. Yes, it was a small venture-- in fact,about the same number of horses (although with a much smaller capitalization) as Graph Racing to date. It tanked.

   Much more importantly for those judging credibility, Friedman has backed completely off his account of the end of the Heard stable, and his claims that Dennis made decisions that cast me and Thoro-Graph in a bad light. It was an outright lie-- the truth was exactly the opposite, and exactly as I presented it.

7- Friedman clearly thinks you are all idiots, but (with one exeption) I don\'t, so I\'m not going to spend much time on this point, except to say again that Friedman\'s post itself shows the importance of having to respond to critical analysis. This time he had to, and was forced to backpedal at warp speed.

   I can\'t make this point strongly enough: This crap is going on in the field daily, and has been for almost 20 years. They have field agents, we don\'t, and that\'s where most (and until recently all) of the business takes place.

   This is why I get my message out here-- it\'s my only forum. And it\'s why Friedman has the \"high road\" policy.

8- Here Friedman has found a fancy way of pretending to dispute my account while pleading nolo contendre. Anyone who wants to make their own decision as to who is characterizing things correctly and who is not can get a copy of the offering by contacting Roger Neubauer at 1-409-718-6957, or roger@graphracing.com.

9- You gotta love this one. Friedman not only initiates the whole thing with his attack, but lies outright, and accuses me of ripping off clients. Then he says he will continue no longer, \"no matter how provoked\".

Since some have raised the issue-- my attorney, who is a good one, tells me that what Friedman has done is not actionable, for the same reason as on the previous occasion. It would be impossible to prove damages, especially since the attack has produced at least one inquiry about investing.

[Friendly]

Interesting....I don\'t remember taking anyone\'s side, but then who needs facts, right? I wouldn\'t dream of getting the middle of your personal beef with the guys you ripped off.

I did love the one about TG not employing agents in the field (I think someone is too big a fan of The Agency). TG has had an \"operative\" in FL as long as I can remember and I know first-hand they are elsewhere. Turn your decoder rings to \"bs\".

It does bring a smile to my face when I think about you typing frantically on the Sheets bb only to have the post deleted. Your feelings of inadequacy are so transparent. Pretty funny!

Jerry, JR.

[HP]

This is as funny as you posting here and describing Charlie Nebel\'s \'reinstatement\' after he became the only millionaire banned from a racetrack for selling free passes. HP

[Friendly]

HP, ask the TG Operative Billy G. and he\'ll tell you I\'m right. Oh wait, TG doesn\'t have any field agents - he must be a secret agent - 00BillyG.

I know the truth comes hard here, but as long as I\'m in the conversation I\'m afraid it is unavoidable.

Jerry, JR.

[mandown]

Welcome back, Jerry Jr.

Life has been very dull without you here. Tell me why do you never post on the other board? And why does the purveyor of truth on that board - as you must surely view Robespierre, the leader of your church of sycophants - not feel sufficiently confident in his arguments to allow those arguments to be tested by dissenting voices?

And you poor fool, you only need to type a message once - then you just copy and paste. And if you paste where they don\'t expect it the message stays up. And you\'re right it is funny. Because this stuff obviously bothers the Francophile - and that in itself shows the naivete and pretentiousness of the man -more than it does anyone on this board.

Your reference to the truth is most amusing. Like all those who\'ve been indoctrinated you woudn\'t know it if it hit you between the eyes. When do the mass suicides start?

[Friendly]

Thanks for the welcome mandown!! I do post on the Sheets board from time to time and read it quite often.

Of course I\'m only hypothesizing, but I would imagine that Robespierre would welcome dissenting views about handicapping and the like. IMO he does not want to engage in the sort of personal attacks that most (not all) of this crowd lives for. He probably doesn\'t want the wannabe to ride their coattails anymore than he already has. Poppa desperately tries to associate himself wherever possible - pretty sickening really.

Don\'t you just love how nobody ever refutes any of my statements? Like HP and Poppa, you insinuate that I don\'t tell the truth, but you never give any proof and most of the time you fanatics don\'t even say what I\'m lying about. The tactics that you employ are pitiful.

This is so easy when one tells the truth. You guys are expending way too much energy - what a wicked web you weave....

[HP]

Just a brief reply regarding the \"truth\" Jerry Jr. I accept your version of the Nebel affair as gospel truth. Do you think your version of events makes him look good? Have it your way. My work is done. HP

[TGJB]

There has been a lot of activity on this board recently and I don\'t want this to get lost in the crowd, so I am re-posting it. For any of you who were away from a computer for the last few days, it is a response to the second of Friedmans \"Graph Racing\" posts. His two attacks and my earlier response are also on this board.


Numbers correspond with Friedman\'s:

1- I said the results were in line with the average results for both partnerships and other racing endeavors, meaning all ownership of horses. I don\'t have current figures, but as of a couple of years ago I believe annual purses in this country were about $1 billion, while expenses were about $2.5 billion. That doesn\'t include cost of the horses-- so the average ownership of a horse results in a loss of 100% of the investment, plus expenses.
With that in mind, go back and look at the results of the 5 year study on this site, which includes profit and loss figures. Friedman conveniently neglected to respond to that part of my post, and my request to publish similar records for the Ragozin operation. The size of the sample in our study is about 15 times that of the Graph Racing Venture Friedman attacks. If you add the results thus far to those of the 5 year study you will not significantly affect the study. And yes, I recognize that doesn\'t help those that invested, which is why I haven\'t sent a bill.

2- Here Friedman is trying to spin fast enough to get the egg off his face. He accused me of ripping off clients-- in fact, I haven\'t taken a dime in compensation to date.

3- This one is good for a laugh. Friedman originally said \"the investers (sic) pay ($20,000) for the right of being lured in\". The implication is that each investor is being charged that, when in fact (even aside from Friedman rounding the amount off to make it bigger), it was a flat, one time, 3% charge on the entire partnership, designed to reimburse Roger for part of what he laid out in legal fees. It works out to about $670 per person.

Aside from the issue of misrepresentation, look at how that 3% stacks up with what Ragozin tried to charge me, which caused me to walk:

Rising Graph: One time fee of 3% of capitalization for a 3 year partnership. Investors get data, management, and administration.

Ragozin: 10% of capitalization PER YEAR, just for data-- I was to supply my own expertise, and work.

Both deals had other aspects that could be worth differing amounts with different result scenarios, but you would be hard pressed to find one where Ragozin wouldn\'t be getting many times what I would.

And, of course, Ragozin wasn\'t being reimbursed for laying out money.

4- Here Friedman admits he got it wrong, then goes on to imply that I\'m in a conflict of interest situation-- advising one client to buy what I\'m advising another to sell. I\'m not, and Len, you are an ass, and transparent. You were being clever, for legal reasons, in phrasing that as a question, rather than as a statement.

5- Anyone who has been a member of a multiple ownership enterprise can look at our compensation and post here as to how it stacks up with other ventures. Again, I don\'t know of any others in my position who are compensated ONLY based on results, and I am able to do what I do because of my record-- let\'s see the records of any other ventures.

And, I haven\'t even charged Graph Racing.

6- Jeff Langbert and I were the investors in Friedman\'s ill-fated venture that preceded the Heard Stable, which preceded Tresvant. Yes, it was a small venture-- in fact,about the same number of horses (although with a much smaller capitalization) as Graph Racing to date. It tanked.

Much more importantly for those judging credibility, Friedman has backed completely off his account of the end of the Heard stable, and his claims that Dennis made decisions that cast me and Thoro-Graph in a bad light. It was an outright lie-- the truth was exactly the opposite, and exactly as I presented it.

7- Friedman clearly thinks you are all idiots, but (with one exeption) I don\'t, so I\'m not going to spend much time on this point, except to say again that Friedman\'s post itself shows the importance of having to respond to critical analysis. This time he had to, and was forced to backpedal at warp speed.

I can\'t make this point strongly enough: This crap is going on in the field daily, and has been for almost 20 years. They have field agents, we don\'t, and that\'s where most (and until recently all) of the business takes place.

This is why I get my message out here-- it\'s my only forum. And it\'s why Friedman has the \"high road\" policy.

8- Here Friedman has found a fancy way of pretending to dispute my account while pleading nolo contendre. Anyone who wants to make their own decision as to who is characterizing things correctly and who is not can get a copy of the offering by contacting Roger Neubauer at 1-409-718-6957, or roger@graphracing.com.

9- You gotta love this one. Friedman not only initiates the whole thing with his attack, but lies outright, and accuses me of ripping off and double-dealing clients. Then he says he will continue no longer, \"no matter how provoked\".

Since some have raised the issue-- my attorney, who is a good one, tells me that what Friedman has done is not actionable, for the same reason as on the previous occasion. It would be impossible to prove damages, especially since the attack has produced at least one inquiry about investing.

[Friendly]

HP, I think my recount of the facts casts Mr. Nebel in a fine light. Do you even remember what I told you happened? Why you dredge this up again is beyond me after so many months. Several years ago Nebel handed out passes to the big-bettors using The Sheets and asked the guys for $10 or so to tip the girls in the office so they\'d give him the passes sooner. Management heard about it, didn\'t like it, and banned him on the trumped up charge of \"selling\" passes. Big deal in my opinion.

Honestly, your obsession with him is very strange. I understand JB\'s obsession with Ragozin due to his feelings of guilt and inadequacy, but why do you have such a hard-on for Nebel, especially after all these years?

TG never got any passes because they don\'t have any regular customers at Calder, let alone a big bettor. They do have OOBillyG who is working on some secret mission for Poppa. Because of this Poppa denies his existence and affiliation with The Organization.

Too funny! :0)

[HP]

Accepting your version, Nebel is a millionaire (according to you) and as a Ragozin field rep, and rather than ask the office to reimburse him for this expense or reaching into his own pocket, he has to ask CUSTOMERS for TEN DOLLARS to get passes sooner. You actually believe this, and you think THIS version casts him in a \"fine light.\"

I just think it\'s a funny story. Some high rollers! Keep making your friends look good bro. I\'m sure they are thrilled to have you on their side. HP

[TGJB]

Hi, Jim. Just want to let you know that I\'m not responding because no-one is taking you seriously, and I\'m trying to keep this board from turning into the sewer it became when I let you and Soup post here before. If you upset the paying customers again I will have no choice but to bar you again.

[Friendly]

HP and Poppa, I told the truth and you can either believe it or make up more lies to suit your fantasy world. Ask TG Field Agent OOBillyG since you seem to love calling me a liar. You guys really are unreal. You refuse to answer anything I ask and constantly shift the subject. I still don\'t understand why you brought up this Nebel character and an insignificant incident that happened SEVERAL YEARS ago. It\'s like you have nothing to complain about so you bring up things (like Harvey Pack) that nobody cares about from long ago.

If I called you liars and brought up all the bad things I have heard about Jerry and his representatives over the years I\'d be barred/censored in a heartbeat. I\'m sure most here would applaud it (like last time) then turn right around and complain about being censored on The Sheets bulletin board. It\'s just one big circle-jerk with you Graphies. Poppa, you are going to bar me if I bother the paying customers? LOL!! Now you have your answer every time you wonder why they don\'t leave your drivel up on The Sheets bulletin board. You bother us.



Jerry, JR.

[HP]

I never called you a liar JJ! I don\'t have to ask BillyG anything. I wrote that I accept your version as gospel truth (and I do!) and I just thought it was a funny story. If it\'s insignificant it\'s interesting that YOU seem to remember the details after all these years, right down to the dollar amount in question ($10!).

I can only thank you. I could never make up a better story than yours about Charlie Nebel, high rolling millionaire/Rag rep who needs to hit up his BIGGEST customers for ten bucks. I only hope you keep coming after me on this so I can keep putting \"Charlie Nebel\" and \"needs ten bucks\" in the same sentence over and over again. HP

[Friendly]

Yeah, you are wacky that way HP. I\'d rather not reinforce your obsession with this man. By the way, next time I have dinner with the man I\'ll make sure he pays the whole tip. What a maroon!!  :0)