Knock It Off

[TGJB]

Don\'t make me waste time deleting all this sniping crap. Especially since all this nonsense is besides the point in terms of the real drug issues.

Interesting that they don\'t test for alkalyzing agents in Dubai. Hope everybody noticed that one.

[Chuckles_the_Clown2]

You seem adamant that the Carbon threshold is a key factor in the performance gap.

In your estimation, considering there are other performance enhancing issues including steroids, broncho dialators, pain masking agents, red blood cell count, agents to mask other agents and so forth, can you set a percentage in this mix of how significant you believe Carbon is to enhancing performance?

In that context, do you have Carbon data from Plech\'s runners? And if so, would you share it?

TGJB Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Don\'t make me waste time deleting all this sniping
> crap. Especially since all this nonsense is
> besides the point in terms of the real drug
> issues.
>
> Interesting that they don\'t test for alkalyzing
> agents in Dubai. Hope everybody noticed that one.

[TGJB]

I\'m not talking about Carbon, I\'m talking about alklyzing agents, which used to be administered in\"milkshakes\", and now are put into the feed (you can get the stuff at any CVS). The test involves measuring Carbon Dioxide levels in the blood.

There are plenty of other drug issues, some involving testing, most involving enforcement (as California state vet Rick Arthur wrote in a letter to the editor of the DRF recently). Example-- clenbuterol (a powerful bronchial dilator) is a theraputic drug when used properly between races, a powerful performance enhancer when used on or close to race day. California is, as far as I know, the only state to test for the difference.

EPO (Epogen, the major red cell multiplier) has very dangerous side effects. It was used, and I have been told by someone in the industry that I know well and trust that Allday told him directly that he had developed the use of the drug in horses, and that some horses had died along the way. I do not believe it is being used much today-- there is an antibody test now, and there are other simpler ways to move horses up without getting a positive or risking killing the horse. Like alkalyzing agents.

The drug suspensions that have been given out are, in almost all cases, irrelevant. They are exactly the same as getting Capone for income tax evasion, and done for the same purpose. The drugs in those cases are seldom serious performance enhancers.

[Chuckles_the_Clown2]

Ok, \"alklyzing agents\", I\'ve considered the same as \"Carbon related\" due to the subject carbon dioxide testing you refer to. You are talking about offsetting the buildup and effects of acid in the muscles. It\'s an acid/base consideration, and clearly one of the cheaters techniques. The thresholds are artificially high, I think we understand that. I\'m quite sure that those who insist that the usual suspects are not cheating, don\'t consider a test reading above the natural state but below the threshold proof that their trainer is a cheat. I know they don\'t and they abound here.

Theres absolutely no doubt in my mind that Allday in conjuncture with trainers that hired him, killed a number of top Stakes horses. No doubt whatsoever, None. I\'m also certain they learned their lesson and are not utilizing that agent any longer. Losing the top stars in your stable will get you to modify your behavior. So will going to jail.

TGJB Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I\'m not talking about Carbon, I\'m talking about
> alklyzing agents, which used to be administered
> in\"milkshakes\", and now are put into the feed (you
> can get the stuff at any CVS). The test involves
> measuring Carbon Dioxide levels in the blood.
>
> There are plenty of other drug issues, some
> involving testing, most involving enforcement (as
> California state vet Rick Arthur wrote in a letter
> to the editor of the DRF recently). Example--
> clenbuterol (a powerful bronchial dilator) is a
> theraputic drug when used properly between races,
> a powerful performance enhancer when used on or
> close to race day. California is, as far as I
> know, the only state to test for the difference.
>
> EPO (Epogen, the major red cell multiplier) has
> very dangerous side effects. It was used, and I
> have been told by someone in the industry that I
> know well and trust that Allday told him directly
> that he had developed the use of the drug in
> horses, and that some horses had died along the
> way. I do not believe it is being used much
> today-- there is an antibody test now, and there
> are other simpler ways to move horses up without
> getting a positive or risking killing the horse.
> Like alkalyzing agents.
>
> The drug suspensions that have been given out are,
> in almost all cases, irrelevant. They are exactly
> the same as getting Capone for income tax evasion,
> and done for the same purpose. The drugs in those
> cases are seldom serious performance enhancers.