one response and one only

[Mall]

Believe it or not Alydar, H Pack is still alive, or at least he was as of last summer, so even someone as young as you could be quoting him if you were so inclined. It\'s nice to see you back in action, but alas I do not have definitive answers to either of your Qs. In fact, I don\'t even have enough of an opinion to start an argument, & HP would not be around to break it up anyway. I haven\'t read Scared Money(although at times I am painfully aware of the concept) & although I have some of Mark\'s other stuff, I\'m not sure what you\'re referring to. Perhaps you could provide a reference.

[Alydar in California]

I\'m puzzled by your first sentence, Mall. Are you saying that we can only quote people who are alive? That would rule out Hank the Angry Dwarf, but it wouldn\'t rule out Treadhead. Forgive me for thinking we can do better than that.  

To answer your question: \"Value Handicapping\"

Sample of 1000 class droppers: 68 percent increased their Beyer figure significantly on the drop. \"Taking all droppers, including those 29 percent whose Beyer figures decreased, the average improvement in Beyer fig on the class drop was an impressive 7 points!\"

Class risers: Their figure decreases by an average of four points.

[Mall]

My off the top of my head reaction to Cramer\'s research is that it is consistent with my latest bugaboo, namely that recent research tends to indicate that horses do not bounce with anywhere near the frequency that sheets players seem to believe. That research includes horses such as a winner of a mdn clming race who runs a career best no. & is entered in a NW1. There are situations when such horses win, but if the horse is more typical & regresses, is it because of a bounce or because the horse is at a level of competition where it cannot compete? If such horses are excluded from the database, the % which bounce is even lower.

[JR]

I have my own idea about this. As you have displayed, the majority of horses improve their Beyers when dropping in class and conversely run slower Beyers when moving up. Could it be that horses who run new tops are often moved up in class which, coincidently, just happens to be about the time they are due to bounce thus creating the appearance that they earned the inferior figure due to the class hike? The reverse being true for the class drop?

[Alydar in California]

   Steve: The archives are working again:

Steve Plever on 5-9-2002, in part: \"Anyway, here are my points. First, on Alydar: His quotes are correct. But an after-the-fact smile and \'thanks for defending us\' from someone in the Rag office is not at all the same as a before-the-fact encouragement. Especially when, as Alydar concedes, those words were followed one of the next times I went to the office to buy Sheets by Jake\'s wise counsel that responding to the attacks was futile and that I should stop wasting my time. (Call me a dummy all you want but don\'t lay that label on Jake.)

So Jake is absolutely correct in calling Alydar a baldfaced liar for saying the Rag office encouraged me. Aldyar tried to present the image that I am part of a Rag office-directed conspiracy to create conflict on this board. Bull. I didn\'t bother seconding Jake\'s post because there was nothing else to say without breaking a bargain I had made with Alydar.  

When I made the mistake of exchanging a few e-mails with Alydar, I mistakenly thought a private context would produce a more interesting, less hostile exchange. I hoped to learn more about him and give him a less jaundiced view of me. To facilitate that, I asked and he agreed that the e-mail contents would remain between us. I guess he has conveniently forgotten about that little promise.

But Before you nail me for posting on this board this once, consider the deal made by Alydar.\"
 
 Posted by Steve Plever on April 06, 2001 at 14:12:24:

In Reply to: Re: before it\'s deleted--TGJB--TG posted by TGJB on April 06, 2001 at 07:45:45:

TGJB:

Appreciate your good faith, which seems in regrettably short supply in this arena. The reason I don\'t go your suggested route is as follows...

You know that the Rag office has never badmouthed you to me. But I thought you\'d be interested in the very few occasions that they did talk about your operation with me: I did get some thank-yous for defending them on your site. (Later, I got some friendly advice to the effect that continuing was pretty pointless, and wasn\'t I wasting too much time on the Internet?)

I also got some chuckles at the Rag office for pestering you into admitting your Gulfstream clocker\'s inexperienced mistake a few years back.

But they also told me you were being absolutely truthful about the Belmont turf watering story you posted -- they volunteered that you were right and they were wrong without me asking.

So for me to come to them now, and demand to know whether they run around lying about you, would be insulting, unwarranted and wrong.

I am not only skeptical of your claims of rampant dirty tricks, but I also have trouble believing that there are more than a handful of sheet players stupid enough to be influenced by the conduct your lawyer\'s letter alleges. And without a small stack of affidavits from misled players a court case is indeed out of the question.

Does that excuse the conduct? If it actually took place as you described (which I doubt, given my experience), no. But it does reduce the alleged crime to the level of a stupid sophomoric prank -- like nasty grafitti from one frat dissing another. Which is also what many of the posts on this Web site look like.

So rather than asking either office what they did or didn\'t do in the past, customers should urge both sides to stop any future ugliness from this point on -- it is an embarressment to the handicapping community.

Before I had ever been to the Rag office, I posted on their site urging them to stop some nasty posts I saw about your product. They did. (I\'m sure the timing was a coincidence -- I was a new customer they had never met.)

The juvenile name calling on this site is one thing. But the recent exchanges -- which could trigger fistfights if they were face to face instead of keyboard to keyboard -- are another. They should lead you to reconsider your bb policies and your approach to this whole dispute.

I am glad that at least you and I are having a more respectful exchange than in the past, so this seems like the right moment to ban myself again, this time for good. HP, you say you made your last post on the Rag board -- this\'ll be my last post here. (I know, JB, you\'ll believe that when you see it.)

Peace,
SP