Question for the Clown

[richiebee]

Did you mention in one of your posts that breeding to Barbaro would be risky?

I guess if you had mares you wouldn\'t have bred to Danzig?

[Chuckles_the_Clown2]

richiebee Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Did you mention in one of your posts that breeding
> to Barbaro would be risky?
>
> I guess if you had mares you wouldn\'t have bred to
> Danzig?
>
>


Don\'t think Danzig shattered a limb not henerally prone to shatter in very innocuous circumstances. Danzig went bad, he didnt\' come unglued is my recollection.

Barbaro was lightly raced which tends to indicate care was necessary. He was out of a Carson City broodmare and that is far from positive. Lastly those Turf Forays tended to indicate they were starting very carefully.

Barbaro is an extreme risk in my opinion. Anyone breeding to him would be ignoring all the evidence of why the breed has weakened.

Danzig passed on ouchy qualities too. He did get a fair share of horses that could go ground if he was properly crossed. Do a nick search, Danzig over a Carson City mare...lol

[imallin]

Barbaro\'s stride is an \'up and down\' stride. He appears to hit the ground hard up front. He\'s a big, blocky brick house....very powerful animal, but i\'m not sure breeders will be in love with his \'action\'.

What they WILL be in love with is the fact that he won the Ky Derby by 6 lengths. Breeders who see a Barbaro yearling (god willing) who looks like a nice individual will be interested because there\'s always that idea that even if Barbaro isn\'t going to sire durable horses, he does have the ability to sire one \'freak\' who can also win the Derby.

These days, super milers are the sires people are interested in. If Distorted Humor can sire a Derby winner and he was a great miler, people don\'t need to breed to the \'long winded\' sires to get a derby winner....

But, the bottom line comes down to the \'individual\' and how fast he is breezing a quarter mile or how fast he \'looks\'.

A perfectly correct individual out of moderate breeding will probably bring more money than a fashionably bred horse who\'s crooked.

I believe that green monkey 16 million dollar horse....looked amazing as an individual, but his breeding wasn\'t breeding you\'d think would bring 16 mil.

But, when guys who are made of money are bidding against each other, anything can happen.

[bellsbendboy]

Being called out as one of the children by the boss, and being asked to tone it down caused me to step back, but your post that Danzig passing on \"ouchy\" qualities is absurd.

I was working at Claiborne, when Danzig arrived, and the insurance company would not insure him because he had a crack in his cannon bone. Reports that it was a knee were/are ubiquitous, but I distinctly remember Woody being upset, and Seth being thrilled, and the xray I saw was the cannon bone. I believe the xray accurate, and the fake Devil\'s Bag xray, another story.

As I recall, Danzig initially stood for 10K a season, and 25K a share, yet by 1985 he stood for some 250K.

His \"ouchy\" offspring included over 100 graded stakes winners, a total surpassed only by Northern Dancer himself, his son Sadlers Wells, and Danzig\'s own son Danehill.  

Chief\'s Crown, War Chant, Lure, Langfuhr, and winners of every triple crown race are a few of the \"ouchy\" offspring Danzig sired. He was an incredible stallion.
BBB

[imallin]

Danzig rules. He was 3 for 3 lifetime as a racehorse? Is that right?

[Chuckles_the_Clown2]

bellsbendboy Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Being called out as one of the children by the
> boss, and being asked to tone it down caused me to
> step back, but your post that Danzig passing on
> \"ouchy\" qualities is absurd.
>
> I was working at Claiborne, when Danzig arrived,
> and the insurance company would not insure him
> because he had a crack in his cannon bone. Reports
> that it was a knee were/are ubiquitous, but I
> distinctly remember Woody being upset, and Seth
> being thrilled, and the xray I saw was the cannon
> bone. I believe the xray accurate, and the fake
> Devil\'s Bag xray, another story.
>
> As I recall, Danzig initially stood for 10K a
> season, and 25K a share, yet by 1985 he stood for
> some 250K.
>
> His \"ouchy\" offspring included over 100 graded
> stakes winners, a total surpassed only by Northern
> Dancer himself, his son Sadlers Wells, and
> Danzig\'s own son Danehill.  
>
> Chief\'s Crown, War Chant, Lure, Langfuhr, and
> winners of every triple crown race are a few of
> the \"ouchy\" offspring Danzig sired. He was an
> incredible stallion.
> BBB
>
>

Chief\'s Crown - 21 starts
War Chant - 7 starts
Lure - 25 Starts
Langfuhr 23 Starts

You picked 3 pretty solid Danzigs there. His average number of starts is much lower. He himself only had 3 starts.

To my knowledge Danzig never sired a Derby Winner. He got a Preakness winner in Pine Bluff and a Belmont Winner in Danzig Connection. Pine Bluff started 13 times, Danzig Connection 17, still WAY ABOVE his average.

The interesting thing about Danzig was he did come up with some decent horses IF he was crossed to a really good mare. His relatively small number of sound offspring generally were from such crosses. Obviously War Chant wasn\'t one, despite the fact Hollywood Wildcat was a pretty sound mare.

[imallin]

Do you think Danzig is a better sire of sires than he is a sire himself?