Various

[TGJB]

CTC-- any post of yours containing the words I, me, my, etc., or concerning yourself in any way, will be deleted from now on. Nobody cares, and that\'s being charitable. Write about the game and it will stay up.

Miff-- As far as I can tell from the posts of Friedman and others, Bernardini looked the same on both sets of sheets. Len gets credit for the pick, though in my defense I have to write the seminar in time to have it up Wednesday night, and at that time I (and probably Michael D.) were still under the imression Bernardini would be only 6 or 7 to 1. According to Len\'s post, he wouldn\'t have played the horse at under 10-1 either. And he doesn\'t give out anything cold, ever-- he made a list, and said all but 3 horses should be used in exotics. I\'m sure he had the exacta, and I\'m sure a lot of those that read his post did too-- but not cold.

I ended up having a good day (mostly because of the Gallorette), but I feel like I left a lot of money on the table. I actually took a little of the winner when I found out you could get 15-1 on Thursday (and as it turned out you could have found higher later if you looked hard). But I didn\'t especially think he was going to run well-- it was a hedge. My only real position on the race was that Barbaro was a massive bet-against, and I cashed every prop I bet (BD vs. him getting 2-1, SNS getting 3-1, laying 17-10 against a TC). That and the saver win bet enabled me to get even money despite losing every single bet I made into the pools, and I made a bunch-- Zito\'s horse getting third killed me.

Boy, when I said Nader was drowning his sorrows, it didn\'t even occur to me Bernardini might pass the Belmont. Poor NYRA.

[miff]

Jerry,

I am very partial to fast horses with upside potential, so I saved the day with the Preakness winner in a pick three but needed Barbaro for a decent win.How could you not go after Funny Cide?

Re Nyra,

Pension trust has filed a lien for past due pension money.Clueless State Sen Larkin wants the players to pick up the tab for the financial NYRA mess. Slots delayed again and the cancer on NY racing, OTB, being highly uncooperative in looking for permanent solutions to NY racings problems .Magna gaining more credibility with the upstate politicians where the final decision will be made.

All this from a very concerned NYRA insider and the \"good guys\" trying to save NY Racing are losing ground.Not good.


Mike

[Chuckles_the_Clown2]

TGJB Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> CTC-- any post of yours containing the words I,
> me, my, etc., or concerning yourself in any way,
> will be deleted from now on. Nobody cares, and
> that\'s being charitable. Write about the game and
> it will stay up.
>

But Jerry, some handicappers had very good days yesterday. You, ut oh, is it o.k. to use \"Jerry\"? or \"You\"? Imagine it is, anyway, even considering the circumstances where Barbaro was such a strong bet against, why would \"You\" want to curtail post race examination of why he was such a strong target? Especially when he was a relatively weak Derby wager? There were an awful lot of reasons consistent with Tgraph methodology to take a stand against him. Some are experienced enough to recognize those reasons, the least of which not being the fact he went off at a ridiculously low 1-2. How can handicappers discuss the merits of wagers without reference to how \"They\" faired personally in their wagers? That would appear to be awfully difficult. In that regard, one that scrutinizes all things generally might point out the rest of \"Your\" statements from the subject post. Of course, it is \"Your\" website and \"You\" are always at liberty to do as \"You\" please, but for the sake of illustration here is what \"You\" said, EMPHASIS ADDED:


\"I\" ended up having a good day (mostly because of the Gallorette), but \"I\" feel like \"I\" left a lot of money on the table. \"I\" actually took a little of the winner when \"I\" found out you could get 15-1 on Thursday (and as it turned out you could have found higher later if you looked hard). But \"I\" didn\'t especially think he was going to run well-- it was a hedge. \"M\"y only real position on the race was that Barbaro was a massive bet-against, and \"I\" cashed every prop \"I\" bet (BD vs. him getting 2-1, SNS getting 3-1, laying 17-10 against a TC). That and the saver win bet enabled \"ME\" to get even money despite losing every single bet \"I\" made into the pools, and \"I\" made a bunch-- Zito\'s horse getting third killed \"ME\".

Boy, when \"I\" said Nader was drowning his sorrows, it didn\'t even occur to \"ME\" Bernardini might pass the Belmont. Poor NYRA.

Jerry, \"some\" did very well in the pools, including the Trifecta but in attempts to winnow down combinations didn\'t have Hemingways Key third in the Super. Maybe \"they\" didn\'t even post about it. It was clearly an exotics race, even if a winner could not be selected with confidence. But that wasn\'t the key, was it?

When \"you\" take 9-1 on the fastest horse in a race \"you\" can forgive the probability of bounce. \"You\" can forgive that probability when you include a competitive big figure last horse at 12-1. The problem of course is that a lightly raced big figure horse at 1-2 becomes a liability. \"Some\" understand when a Cigar is not a Cigar, even if \"they\" can\'t talk about it.

CtC

[TGJB]

YOU don\'t get it. And I\'m done wasting time explaining it to you.

[P-Dub]

How old are \"you\"???

You can never leave well enough alone.  Always have to get the last word.

You must spend a lot of time alone by your computer.

If you were to ever engage in these types of discussions in person,  I would think that most people would just plain slap the sh$$t out of you.

Just stop already.  When will you ever learn that \"NOBODY CARES WHAT YOU THINK\"!!!!!!!!  Talk about being in love with yourself.

[trackjohn]

 Jerry:

    It is time to ban CTC2 forever.  As a lontime handicapper and T-bred owner, I find his comments regarding yesterday\'s events insulting, cruel and ignorant.  It is clear that he never has owned or raced horses and has no interest in this sport, other then to foster his own egotistical opinions.

[tmcdevitt]

For a long time I thought people here were too hard on CtC. After yesterday\'s sickening posts, I was wrong

[TGJB]

Guys, I\'m going to confine him to posts not about himself. And for the record, he needs the attention you guys are giving him-- it\'s not ego, it\'s lack of it. Every time you single him out, even negatively, you raise his stature in his own eyes.

[trackjohn]

Point taken!!

[P-Dub]

Agreed. As difficult as it is,  I won\'t do it again.  Sorry JB.

[Chuckles_the_Clown2]

trackjohn Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Jerry:
>
>     It is time to ban CTC2 forever.  As a lontime
> handicapper and T-bred owner, I find his comments
> regarding yesterday\'s events insulting, cruel and
> ignorant.  It is clear that he never has owned or
> raced horses and has no interest in this sport,
> other then to foster his own egotistical opinions.


After the Holy Bull at Hallandale, it was fairly clear that Barbaro was going to be a better horse than First Samurai or Bluegrass Cat and some went out on the limb at that time and stated so. Despite that, some of those same folks played against Barbaro in the Florida Derby, but Barbaro eked out a hard fought victory under tough conditions. Thereafter, Barbaro was training up a storm prior to the Kentucky Derby and upon that angle alone it was wise to use him lightly. However, he jumped up for a number of reasons and at arms length appeared to have humbled that field. The reality was a little different than what the eye perceived however. There was evidence that most of the field that closed wide did so in very fast time. The rail was clearly not as fast as the middle of the track the day before. Several of the very top contenders were compromised by traffic. The near rail horses, including the pace setters failed poorly to varying degrees. Barbaro was perfectly positioned both on path and his stalk position to pick up the pieces and that's precisely what happened.  It's also precisely what happened the year before, with lo and behold near rail path questions. The reality of Barbaros Kentucky Derby was that it was a top effort, but it was also a fortuitous commingling of circumstances and after the Derby Barbaro became a target, a bet against.

The chance to beat an undefeated, gingerly raced, top running, publicly acclaimed, media hyped, Odds-On Horse in the Triple Crown comes along very rarely. When it does it can be an absolute windfall to those with the vision to try and defeat him.  Commenting in victory upon the defeated horse is not cruel and it is not ignorant and that is regardless of why the horse fails to win, including injury, which is always a factor to consider in the totality of circumstances.  There are people that never raced a horse and who would never race one that know more about the game, including the humane aspects of it than those who race for whatever capricious reasons. Why subject the animals to the stress of drugs and competition and the risk of injury at all if humanity to animals is paramount? The answer of course is that it humanity is not paramount. These animals would not even exist in society today but for the thrill and risk of both wagering upon them and running them at their absolute limits.

Those who think that commenting upon the events of that race or cashing upon that race taints their returns, be humane, give it all back. Tell the Service Manager or the Track Management that the money is soiled by misfortune and that you don't want it. Tell them you'll give it all back if it will nullify Barbaros bad luck. But just remember, it won't and you wagered upon him going bad.

Oh, and if you don't like the message, kill the messenger.

[TGJB]

CTC-- Hey Schmuck. In case you haven\'t noticed, about 90% of the people on both boards bet against Barbaro. There\'s at least one guy on this one that hit the 22k super, a guy on the other who evidently took down 150k. Why are you still here?

[Chuckles_the_Clown2]

TGJB Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> CTC-- Hey Schmuck. In case you haven\'t noticed,
> about 90% of the people on both boards bet against
> Barbaro. There\'s at least one guy on this one that
> hit the 22k super, a guy on the other who
> evidently took down 150k. Why are you still here?

That was a very bad word Jerry to use against the World\'s Best Triple Crown Handicapper, running a five year string cashing the Preakness. Additionally you made it very personal which is a textual quandry to answer without the use of personal pronouns and makes it about impossible to answer your question. Questions are so personal don\'t you think? Who asks questions these days? How many questions have I asked? Is that the issue? Now Look What You\'ve Done! You have me asking questions!

Congrats to the others that don\'t want to give the money back.

Lastly, in addition to bad words, poor shrinksmanship is not very becoming.