This weekend's seminar's at Saratoga

[jimbo66]

Allen,

Nice meeting you this weekend and great job on the seminars.  I particularly enjoyed your insights on pattern reads, which are a personal weakness for me.  A lot of what you talked about was enlightening and really hit home.  

It was also a nice contrast to the seminar I went to a month ago, led by Julian.  Julian\'s seminar was a lot about \"ferreting out longshots\", which was also very interesting and provided another way of attacking races.  

I only caught the two weekends, but I thought they were great and hope that Tgraph continues with them next year.  Getting the insights and angles of experienced sheet players can only help.

Jim

[NoCarolinaTony]

Jimbo,

I also feel exactly the same as you. I too had the chance to listen to on day 1 with Julian and the art of the longshot as well as talk to Alan on patterns this past weekend. I learned quit e a bit more about the art of sheet playing. I have to break an old bad habit of looking back at DRF which tends to throw me for a regurgitation of the data. Wish we could do more of that on this board with live examples.

None the less, the TG team and the Location \"Carolina Barbecue\" with Steve as host, you couldn\'t have met any nicer people and one of the better locations on site. (I wish my parents now in their 70\'s would have given me more space this weekend but how can you say no to those that showed you the game and my wife...you know how it goes).  Anyway bailed out big on Sunday/Monday especially late in day with Pick 4\'s etc. Especially today.

Mall missed your posts while being here about the evangaline contest et al.

One last little story about my weekend at the SPA and handicapping in general, We sat in the Travers Bar area of clubhouse the entire weekend and met a 92 year old woman who was as spry as you\'ll find for a person her age.She was drinking bourbon and smoking cigaretts as often as she could. Her good friend brings her every Sunday and Closing day. She was telling me she willed money to her friend to continue to play the same combo of umbers when she passes as long as the money was there. Anyway she comess to race in Saratoga every Sunday and Closing day. She plays the same exact numbers boxed in Tri\'s and Supers when they are available. Well today was her day. She it both the tri and super for $1 on todays sixth. She boxed 2568 number she has played for years. Today she collected 1/2 of $25.7K and $3.7K. What a joy to see her excitement of a passion she loves. Anyway, here I am trying to make sense of it all.

Hope to see you guys soon!!

One last plug for the Location Carolina Barbecue, Steve your a great Guy and the food is excellent. Keep up the good work. Nice plug by Sam the Buglar too!!

NC Tony

[bdhsheets]

I broached this subject before, to total silence from the powers that be.

Both you gentlemen [and others] have indicated what a benefit it was attending the seminars, how people gained new insights reading T-graph. Why not record the seminars, using portable microphones to get attendee questions and sell them at $20 [whatever price] a whack for the sheets being discussed and commentary on a single [double] CD-ROM. Those folks who haven\'t been able to attend, just might buy them in droves, maybe not. It\'s worth a try. I\'d buy a  full complement.

If this board devoted as much time discussing the product vs the other nonsense that goes on here, long term profits would grow quickly. They just don\'t get it...

[NoCarolinaTony]

BD

Interesting point you bring up. I believe Jerry whom I\'ve had the pleasure to meet, and the rest of the staff who I\'ve met at varying venues all have been both very personable and willing to help. Ive more or less developed my own \"sheet\" interpertion/analysis as I don\'t live in the local NY metro area where the heart of the group is (although I grew up there and miss it). I grew up a DRF guy although there was a point in time I used exclusively a product called FIGS Form wher I found a competitive advantage especially at the meadowlands in the late 80\'s. As it turned out it was an early competitor to the Sheets and TG. It is then where I grew to respect FIGue making as a key to betting thoroughbreds.

About 2001 I  re-explored speed figures and found TG and Sheets both online and started to expermiment with both to some extent. I found TG to be much more user friendly than RAG Sheets. To this day the Sheets make it impossible for a newbie or potential interested customer to even explore their product. To sign up for their board is an act of congress. Once you find their product it is so old fashion and difficult to interpert early on, that I believe they lose customers from the get go let alone their web site requires one congressional aproval to finalaly explore it.  Without getting into Jerry\'s issues, TG is much more usr accesable and intertable than the sheets in  my opionin, and I also believe the desire is ther to get things right, maybe to a fault but , with all that being said, the guys and the site really does answer your theoretical questions. They cannot answer specific question about upcoming races as it \"lets face it\" takes sales away from current products.

I guess what I am saying is you pose an interesting question about a seminar but you need both the days sheets, and the discussions, and the race tapes to get the final picture to see how it came together. I believe if you pose the correct theoretical questions you\'ll get the answers on this board, which I believe is what Jerry wants and not the other BS rhetoric.

Julian and Alan where very very helpful to me as a newer sheet user trying to break old habits. I now use both DRF and TG but rely on TG for beting and horse performance and DRF to fill the gaps. Where I go wrong is not respecting th horse analysis by TG exclusively and re interject old DRF habits.

Anyway and finaly, I think JB should forget about the RAG board and crticism and solely focus on making his product and web site the best it can be. I don\'t really know the sales$ difference of either product as it\'s not public info but from what I can access at Saratoga, the stand was selling more TG than Rags and if Jerry Web sales are much better as (RAGS site is a user nightmare)he says than he does have the Niche he needs to take it to the next level. I believe if he would ever produce a graphical product of all Horses in a race summary superimposed with either a historical view or ...better yet as a projection of the race based upon the data base of info at his disposal he might break some new ground and sales opportunities he\'s never seen. ( I\'m not looking for a job) but think I see a greart marketing opportunity.

In summary, TGJB let the past go and concentrate on the product to make it better. I think you believe it is better and I know the desire and passion is there so JUST DO IT!!

NC Tony

[TGJB]

BD-- First of all, those discussion groups are not the focused, easily followable events you think they are, and most horses don\'t lend themselves to clear discussions of handicapping factors-- we just discuss them because they are running. Second, having done Post Time (where I wrote a piece and read it from a teleprompter), I can tell you that 5 minutes of rambling discussion contains much less of importance and interest than one written minute focused on a specific point. Doing what you propose would be more work for an overworked crew, with little payoff for anybody,and if I sold them I\'d be stealing. You are MUCH better off reading ROTW (present and past, they\'re all there), and asking questions about the horses there, or about others, as long as they are not in upcoming races for which we are charging. Keep it to ROTW, horses that ran already, or theoretical questions (as Jim did), and we can get a lot done here.

On the Ragozin question-- it\'s Hobson\'s choice. There are some important points to make (about differences in figure making) which I will make regardless, but for the most part I have not been responding, let alone bringing them up myself, over the last year or so-- except when a whole bunch of crap appears over there, as it did concerning the law suit, or when Raz brought his nonsense over here. At that point I have the choice of dealing with it, or letting it become currency if I don\'t. I try to strike a balance, and it\'s tough.