Last Words?

[TGJB]

I\'ll give my stuff to Ragozin customers for this test whether Friedman does or not, and whether my guys want to use their stuff or not, as long as the Ragozin guys post in advance.

[TGJB]

Your last paragraph is not only 180 degrees off, but indicates you haven\'t been following this argument, which is SOLELY about differences in figure making methods.

[Anonymous User]

Rumor has it that Jason L is under consideration to receive the first annual Bill Clinton Medallion of Merit. Bill Clinton has decided that as a means of giving back to his ardent supporters, he will set up a fund for this perpetual award. It will be dedicated annually to the individual demonstrating the most artful evasion techniques. Best of Luck Jason.

Tabi

[superfreakicus]

\". Can anyone honestly imagine anything even remotely approaching what has taken place on this Bd over the last 2 weeks ever happening on the Rags Bd? \"


...and can anyone honestly imagine wishing for this...?

[JRL]

Yes, the prior debate was about how the numbers are generated, but I was not responding to that debate, I was responding to your resistance to give your picks away for free.  My point is that if you want serious horse players to take you seriously you wouldn\'t worry about \"selling\" your picks at all.  

My point also was not that there are no serious horse players that use TG.  As I said before, I am sure there are some.  But your recent marketing approach (providing analysis, selling through youbet) is geared not toward getting the serious horse player, but to the lazy user who wants someone to the handicapping work for them.  Otherwise, you wouldn\'t care that were giving away picks for free in ONE race dat.  You didn\'t say you would not be providing picks to the Belmont, only that you would not provide them for free.  Thus, the comparison to Mr. Patent and anybody else can be made after the fact.  Obviously, much of your motive for not posting your picks is that you feel that would preclude some of your target audience from buying your sheets at all.  I think it is fair then to say that you provide picks as a means of attracting people who don\'t really care about your numbers, but care about your picks.

Look, I don\'t really care that as a means of making money, you sell your picks.  But personally, as I said before, I really don\'t wany my sheet maker to become a tout.  If Friedman provided his picks for more than just the triple crown and Breeder\'s Cup, I would be similarly suspicious.  But, as it stands now, Friedman gives the picks on selected days for free and makes you pay for the numbers (And as you repeatedly point out, he really does not give picks as much as his analysis of each horse).  I think that is telling about what he thinks is more valuable and what should be more valuable to a serious horse player.

[TGJB]

I don\'t know where to begin with this, and I don\'t want to waste a lot of time on it.

1- Lots of serious players buy our data, many (I do mean many) are ex-Raggies.

2- Our \"recent marketing approach, providing analysis etc...\" has been going on a long time, and it\'s not a marketing approach, except in the sense that all business is. The picks represent a tiny portion (less than 5%) of our annual income, and we don\'t really push it.

3- The proof that we are more geared to the serious player than Ragozin is the huge amount of additional serious handicapping tools we offer at no additional price, and the constant improvements. That, by the way, is our marketing approach.

4- I have no problem with anyone comparing their published picks to mine, which will be in the Red Board Room.

5- Friedman charges for his opinions on Breeders Cup Day, and still won\'t make definitive picks. Jonathan Hardoon charges for his picks on a 900 line, and he is billed as \"of the Ragozin Sheets\".

[JRL]

In fairness, I do think a lot of the information you provide with your sheets (such as trainer stats) is valuable and your distribution system is far superior.  Also, I also think that Hardoon is a joke (there is also the time a few years ago that he was giving picks in the LA Times).  But Hardoon does not make the numbers, and I still stand by the fact that I think it is a bad idea for the number makers to become touts.  Friedman does it so sparingly that it does not bother me too much.

[tonyk]

I used to use rags sheets but in light of what i\'m reading here I won\'t touch them again.Iwas at Aqueduct when FuPeg won the Wood ,Iseen the track super change the track a few times that day ,first they had it sealed then they harrowed it again ,then resealed it .In a span of 3 races the track played significantly different .I don\'t know a whole lot about variances but if this is not reflected in a product I would have alot of trouble risking my hard earned money on it.

[pmorgan2002]

And because of your lack of.... arguing with you isn\'t. See you at the track, Alydar.

[Alydar in California]

I will pick the time and place. Patrick Morgans cannot be choosers.