Tampa Derby Late Pick-4 Refund

[Paolo]

Tampa Bay Derby 2024

Race 9 won by #3
Race 10 won by #5
Race 11 run but declared a non-wagering event
Race 12 canceled
 
Consolation payouts approved:
Pick 3 (races 9/10/11)  3/5/ALL
Pick 3 (races 10/11/12)  5/ALL/ALL
 
Refund approved:
Pick 4 (races 9/10/11/12)

Why not a consolation 3/5/ALL/ALL on the late pick-4?

Kentucky rules clearly state that the wager is to be refunded if MORE than half of the races are canceled. Otherwise, consolation payoffs are in order. That means the late pick-3 should have been refunded since 2/3 of the races were canceled. The late pick-4 should have paid a consolation amount since only 1/2 of the races were canceled/non-wagering.
 
https://apps.legislature.ky.gov/law/kar/titles/810/006/020/
 
Florida rules are apparently \"missing\". I could not find them and got no response from TB, GP, or the FL Racing Commission. Twinspires refunded the wager and said \"Unfortunately all payout decisions are made directly by the track\".

Anybody else have the first two legs and settled for a refund? My only thought is that the late Pick-4 was compromised (past-posted?) and they have no idea what the legitimate pool was. Very suspicious. The track ignored my request to show me the Florida statutes, as if they don\'t exist. The latest TB press release claims they followed industry standards, but they clearly didn\'t.

Fraud? Negligence? Cause for class action/punitive damages? Can\'t be ignorance because they spent all night supposedly figuring it out.

[BitPlayer]

I think this is related to how information on Pick-N (4-6) tickets is reported to the host track.  From what I have heard and read, because of computer/network limitations, complete information on all the tickets is not reported to the host track when the pool closes.  Rather, the complete info on tickets remaining live is reported just before the last leg.  With the outage, this information would not have been able to get through on a timely basis. For more info, check out this thread from Pat Cummings on Twitter:

https://twitter.com/PatCummingsNTA/status/1766859196719403029

[toppled]

Unfortunately, every state is different.  I was recently watching racing from Oaklawn & fortunately, on a race that I didn\'t have anything on, a part of an entry was a late scratch.  At NYRA if that happens the entry is scratched from betting & the horse runs for purse only with consolations on the entry.  In Arkansas, if half the entry scratches, you\'re stuck with the other half. I felt sorry for the bettors who got stuck with a horse that they may not have ever bet on its own.

[Paolo]

Still no explanation for the late pick 4 refund vs consolation. And his explanation of “bulky” data is absolutely laughable. We will soon have millions of simultaneous self-driving cars on the road with an incredible amount of “bulky” split-second data throughput and an inordinate amount of lives on the line. One hundred thousand wagers is infinitesimal in comparison.
No reply from the track? It’s not like I’m complaining about my refunded superfecta wager with the winning combination. I can understand and accept that… it was declared a non-wagering event before it was run. All I asked of the track was a link to the applicable rules and regulations.

[Boscar Obarra]

The excuse of too much data to send for live tickets is criminally ridiculous .

[Paolo]

To make it even worse, their last press release makes it seem like they paid the consolation for the late pick 4. Perhaps Twinspires is the problem?

https://www.bloodhorse.com/horse-racing/articles/275621/tampa-bay-downs-outlines-decisions-amid-tote-problems

\"Customer satisfaction and trust are at the foundation of our business, and anything that erodes that needs to be addressed,\" Berube said. Is that a joke?

He added that the decision to pay off on multi-race wagers, such as Pick 3s, Pick 4s, and Daily Doubles, by stipulating \"ALL\" winners of the 11th and 12th races was made in accordance with Florida pari-mutuel statutes, which are similar to nationwide standard rules whereby \"no contest\" or \"no race\" designations dictate awarding \"ALL\" runners as the \"winners\" for such legs.

[BitPlayer]

Your initial post was right.  The Late Pick-4 was refunded.  This is from the track\'s website:

\"All win, place and show, exacta, trifecta, superfecta, Super High 5 and Daily Double wagers made involving the 12th race will be refunded, as will wagers made on the late Pick 4.\"

https://www.tampabaydowns.com/payout-refund-information-available-for-saturdays-last-3-races/

I did not mean by my earlier post to endorse the track\'s decision, just to speculate on why it might have been made.  As I have posted here elsewhere, I think lot of people in horse racing are not particularly good at their jobs.  On the other hand, they are working with outdated infrastructure and, in this instance, certainly had no incentive to refund bets rather than pay All-All, since the refund cost the track its share of the takeout.