I don\'t really know much about DRF problems other than they don\'t want him giving out free figures.  You could ask him, or some Mark guy from the Form.

OK, let\'s play.  First off, I am not the guy who runs the site.  I\'m Tony Miles, an Army SSG, and his name is Craig, an Air Force guy.  I am stationed with him here in NATO, and I\'m a fellow horse player.  There aren\'t many of us in the military.  He is actually pissed I posted here in the first place.  He posts here himself from time to time, and it is not like he is trying to hide that.  I told him about the thread with CH, and that he should jump in, and he declined to get involved, so I did.  So yes, I screwed up.  He thinks my posting here is the reason he is being harassed about posting free figures on the internet now by DRF/Equibase.

As for the results, he posted numbers for four tracks every day, before the races.  He always left the figures up after he posted results, win or lose, as he had some losing weeks.  There are tons of people who knew about this site on other boards.  I find it hard to believe you didn\'t.  But I\'m saying no way he posted phony results and didn\'t get called on it.

So, as for #2, no I don\'t know.  He  has never told me any specifics about his numbers.  I know the basics, pace, speed, weight, but that\'s about it.  I\'ve offered to help with variants, but he has another guy (his brother I think) that helps him, and he doesn\'t seem very eager to share.

\"Of course, changes in runups will also have a dramatic effect on fractions (see Pimlico 6f fractions, where they have a 5 foot runup). But I\'m sure those making pace figures are all getting race to race runups and accurate wind info.\"

I have no idea if they are or not.  Maybe such precision is nice, but not necessary to achieve success, who knows?  But like I said before, you can\'t argue with a substantial flat bet profit for four tracks that were posted betting EVERY race for nearly three months.  You\'ve avoided this twice, saying you didn\'t know what results I was talking about even after I told you where to find them.

Like I said before, I use both products, as I think they are both very good.  And to be honest, many times they point to the same exact horses despite the differing methodologies.  I know the $65 FG looked every bit as good from the pace guy that he did on the TG sheets.  There is more than one way to skin a cat, some races you need a different knife.  But to pretend pace can\'t be measured to produce solid results isn\'t necessarily true.

You keep saying noone else got it right, but I posted that the PaceFigures site did get it right.  The race fit right in with the others.    There are more ways to measure a race than with final time alone.  I don\'t think anyone doubts that you guys make the best final time figures available anywhere.  Isn\'t it possible that there could be more to measuring performance than final time?  Like I said earlier, you can\'t argue with the results the guy is getting.

1 AFLEET ALEX 6-5 PS

OP   03/05/2005  6.0 105*
LS   10/30/2004  8.5 103
Bel  10/09/2004  8.5 104
Sar  08/21/2004  7.0 98*
Sar  07/29/2004  6.0 96*
Del  07/12/2004  5.5 90*
Del  06/26/2004  5.5 73*

The pace figures guy has all his races very similar, including having the Hopeful as his fastest race to that point.

Beyer has it as an off race, as you already know.  It looks like you are both getting to the same conclusion via different methods.

pacefigures.com

He has had four rules up that he uses to bet every race for the four tracks he posts, and is showing a decent profit, 15% or so.  Its under weekend results.  I\'ve been tracking the weekday results and they are just as good.  This week has been over 20%, and that is every race, I kid you not.

He does say if you write that he does not bet this way, just a guideline to show how good the numbers are.

I have been using T-graph for a long time, and The Sheets before that, and still do.  But since you guys are talking pace, I wonder if any of you have seen this pace figures guy that has a new site?  I don\'t know exactly what he is measuring, but I assume it has something to do with pace and speed combined from what I can tell.  You can\'t argue with the results, and now I use both Tgraph and the pace figures stuff to look at most races.  Does anyone know about this place?  I kind of stumbled on it accidentally looking for something else a few months ago.