I know this is a bit off-topic, but can horse racing stats be copywrited?

For example, let\'s say Bobby Frankel has a 24-10-4-5 record with all starters at Oaklawn Park. Would you be able to reprint that in a book or website or publication?

I always assumed you could. The Jim Mauzer (sp?) books seem to be nothing but stats. I wonder if Equibase would have a legal right to do something against him?

As far as beyer figures and thoro-graph figures go---I would assume they are copywrited. Let\'s say you have someone selling a tout sheet, and he does his handicapping off of thoro-graph sheets, and in his analysis he gives out previous figures for different horses...I would assume that would be illegal. Can someone clear stuff like this up for me?

I see on the DRF website an article about a possible takeout increase at the NYRA tracks.

Talk about a horrible idea!

Dude\'s, It\'s just a horse-race. I think everyone over-does it with the Derby. It\'s typically won by a fast horse, who gets a good trip, and comes into the race with good recent form.

A horse like Thunder Gulch would be a recent exception, he ran a dreadful race in the Blue Grass, but his numbers on the go-back suggested that he was a fast enough horse to compete in the Derby.

I always felt Thunder Gulch hated Keeneland anyway. As a sire, there have been numerous offspring of Thunder Gulch who have run poorly at KEE and come back to run dazzling at Churchill a few weeks later. Spain (a daughter of TG) ran a luckluster race at KEE, than won the Breeders Cup Distaff at 50-to-1 odds a few weeks later at Churchill. Invisible Ink (a son of TG) ran a very mediocre race in the Blue Grass at KEE, than three weeks later he ran 2nd in the Kentucky Derby at something like 50-to-1 odds.

This board seems to be a radically anti-juice trainer and anti-Allday board. I\'m aware of the widespread cheating (drug use) that\'s going on, and i\'m hip to the fact that vets and trainers are way too aggressive---but I\'ve done so well betting over the last few years, that I\'m starting to worry that a clean game might not be in my best interest.

the latest casuilty in the milkshake incident is Adam Kitchingman. I\'m really upset about that--because I\'ve been looking forward to betting Kitchingman at Del Mar later this year. He has a lifetime training record of 7-for-20 (35% wins) at Del Mar. Kitchingman won at a 29% clip in the rookie season of 2003 going 12-for-42. Last year he went 21-for-94 (22% wins) Since the trainers have come under scrutiny in 2005, Kitch is just 2-for-22 (9% wins) overall, and a dismal 1-for-15 at Santa Anita. He seems to have lost his magic wand.

As for Jeff Mullins, he\'s lost 18 consecutive races as of today. His longest losing streak of all of 2004 was just a 17 race slide that ended on March 5th of 2004. It\'s getting bad for us when someone as invincible as Mullins has been reduced to being a near throwout type trainer.

If all horses ran on hay, oats, and water- the trainer would go from being one of the central factors in the handicapping process- to being only a factor in instances dealing with First Time Starters, or layoffs. I can only speak for myself, but I don\'t really know if I would want that to happen.