Ask the Experts

General Category => Ask the Experts => Topic started by: Silver Charm on September 03, 2015, 07:44:02 AM

Title: Pharoah to Continue Racing
Post by: Silver Charm on September 03, 2015, 07:44:02 AM
Im surprised but this is a bold move. Plenty of chickens have taken the money and run before.

http://www.bloodhorse.com/horse-racing/articles/94143/american-pharoah-to-continue-racing
Title: Re: Pharoah to Continue Racing
Post by: ajkreider on September 03, 2015, 08:21:10 AM
It\'s not my money on the line, obviously - but I\'ve never quite understood the rush to send them off the shed.  They must be insured to the hilt anyway.

The thrill of turning $100 million into $150 million can\'t be a great as watching your horse power down the stretch on a big race day.
Title: Re: Pharoah to Continue Racing
Post by: Strike on September 03, 2015, 08:23:30 AM
I wonder if Gleneagles will still come. Coolmore owns Gleneagles and Pharoah\'s breeding rights. Throw in Beholder (and others) and it should be an amazing race.
Title: Re: Pharoah to Continue Racing
Post by: NormandyInvasion on September 03, 2015, 12:44:31 PM
Silver Charm Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Im surprised but this is a bold move. Plenty of
> chickens have taken the money and run before.
>
> http://www.bloodhorse.com/horse-racing/articles/94
> 143/american-pharoah-to-continue-racing


I\'m not denigrating the move, but I also wouldn\'t call it bold.  They would get absolutely killed on social media if they retired without an injury forcing it.  Besides, he may as well go for any purse and bonus money he can -- the horse has long been sold so anything bad he does here on out doesn\'t affect the price tag.
Title: Re: Pharoah to Continue Racing
Post by: Wrongly on September 03, 2015, 12:48:55 PM
Coming back in 62 days with an O-2-X pattern.  Bring it on.
Title: Re: Pharoah to Continue Racing
Post by: P-Dub on September 03, 2015, 07:14:43 PM
He previously ran a -3 top, backed up 2 points, then paired that number.
Title: Re: Pharoah to Continue Racing
Post by: rhagood on September 03, 2015, 08:10:24 PM
Not be a dead horse but here goes (yes pun intended), the following are of course raw unadjusted times but do a give a general sense that historically the Travers is not kind to very sharp fractions including internal ones. AP\'s raw mile of 1:35.08 would have tied for the fastest ever by the leader and eventual winner. Per the 2014 Media Guide NYRA.com

FASTEST FRACTIONAL AND FINAL TIMES
Since 1901, few horses that have set the fastest early fractions have won the Travers. Holy Bull, who ran the second-fastest quarter ever
(:22 4/5), went on to win the 1994 Travers. Natchez, who ran the third-fastest quarter ever (:23) won in 1946, as did Willow Hour in 1981,
who also ran the quarter in :23.
Horses who set the fastest half-mile times all faded in the Travers, but three that set the fastest six-furlong fractions won. In 1920, Travers
winner Man o' War ran the three-quarters in 1:10 (the second-fastest ever). In 1976, Honest Pleasure set a six-furlong time of 1:10 2/5,
ran the mile in 1:35 (still the fastest Travers mile) and won in a then-record 2:00 1/5. In 1994, Holy Bull also ran the first six furlongs in
1:10 2/5 before winning the 125th edition of the Midsummer Derby in 2:02.
In 1979, General Assembly lowered Honest Pleasure's record by 1/5 second. His record of 2:00 for the 1 1/4 miles still stands, giving
trainer LeRoy Jolley the distinction of training the two fastest Travers winners.


FASTEST FRACTIONAL TIMES

Distance Time Year Horse Where Finished Winner

1/4 mile

:22 3/5 1967 Gala Performance 4 Damascus
:22 3/5 1972 North Sea 5 Key to the Mint
:22 3/5 1980 Superbity 7 Temperence Hill
:22 4/5 1994 Holy Bull 1 Same
:23 1946 Natchez 1 Same
:23 1971 Kennedy Road 5 Bold Reason
:23 1981 Willow Hour 1 Same
:23 1984 Big Pistol 8 Carr De Naskra
:23 1992 Dixie Brass 4 Thunder Rumble
:23 1993 El Bakan 11 Sea Hero
:23 1996 Louis Quatorze 2 Will's Way
:23 2002 Shah Jehan 9 Medaglia d'Oro


1/2 mile

:45 3/5 1972 North Sea 5 Key to the Mint
:45 4/5 1967 Tumiga 3 Damascus
:45 4/5 1980 Superbity 7 Temperence Hill
:46 1971 Kennedy Road 5 Bold Reason


3/4 mile

1:09 3/5 1972 North Sea 5 Key to the Mint
1:09 4/5 2003 Strong Hope 3 Ten Most Wanted
1:10 1929 Man o' War 1 Same
1:10 1987 Temperate Sil 8 Java Gold
1:10 1/5 1977 Silver Series 3 Jatski
1:10 1/5 1980 Amber Pass 3 Temperence Hill
1:10 1/5 1983 Slew o' Gold 2 Play Fellow
1:10 2/5 1945 Pavot 4 Adonis
1:10 2/5 1976 Honest Pleasure 1 Same
1:10 2/5 1994 Holy Bull 1 Same

1 mile

1:35 1976 Honest Pleasure 1 Same
1:35 2/5 1962 Jaipur 1 Same
1:35 2/5 1972 Tentam 2 Key to the Mint
1:35 2/5 1977 Silver Series 3 Jatski
1:35 2/5 1983 Hyperborean 3 Play Fellow
1:35 2/5 1992 Dixie Brass 4 Thunder Rumble
1:35 2/5 2003 Ten Most Wanted 1 Same
Title: Re: Pharoah to Continue Racing
Post by: T Severini on September 04, 2015, 04:39:47 AM
Nice little historical summary.

Some of it brought back memories.

Still, the horse, (AP), just didn\'t look right. It looked like he didn\'t bring his A game!

ty

rhagood Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Not be a dead horse but here goes (yes pun
> intended), the following are of course raw
> unadjusted times but do a give a general sense
> that historically the Travers is not kind to very
> sharp fractions including internal ones. AP\'s raw
> mile of 1:35.08 would have tied for the fastest
> ever by the leader and eventual winner. Per the
> 2014 Media Guide NYRA.com
>
> FASTEST FRACTIONAL AND FINAL TIMES
> Since 1901, few horses that have set the fastest
> early fractions have won the Travers. Holy Bull,
> who ran the second-fastest quarter ever
> (:22 4/5), went on to win the 1994 Travers.
> Natchez, who ran the third-fastest quarter ever
> (:23) won in 1946, as did Willow Hour in 1981,
> who also ran the quarter in :23.
> Horses who set the fastest half-mile times all
> faded in the Travers, but three that set the
> fastest six-furlong fractions won. In 1920,
> Travers
> winner Man o' War ran the three-quarters in 1:10
> (the second-fastest ever). In 1976, Honest
> Pleasure set a six-furlong time of 1:10 2/5,
> ran the mile in 1:35 (still the fastest Travers
> mile) and won in a then-record 2:00 1/5. In 1994,
> Holy Bull also ran the first six furlongs in
> 1:10 2/5 before winning the 125th edition of the
> Midsummer Derby in 2:02.
> In 1979, General Assembly lowered Honest
> Pleasure's record by 1/5 second. His record of
> 2:00 for the 1 1/4 miles still stands, giving
> trainer LeRoy Jolley the distinction of training
> the two fastest Travers winners.
>
>
> FASTEST FRACTIONAL TIMES
>
> Distance Time Year Horse Where Finished Winner
>
> 1/4 mile
>
> :22 3/5 1967 Gala Performance 4 Damascus
> :22 3/5 1972 North Sea 5 Key to the Mint
> :22 3/5 1980 Superbity 7 Temperence Hill
> :22 4/5 1994 Holy Bull 1 Same
> :23 1946 Natchez 1 Same
> :23 1971 Kennedy Road 5 Bold Reason
> :23 1981 Willow Hour 1 Same
> :23 1984 Big Pistol 8 Carr De Naskra
> :23 1992 Dixie Brass 4 Thunder Rumble
> :23 1993 El Bakan 11 Sea Hero
> :23 1996 Louis Quatorze 2 Will's Way
> :23 2002 Shah Jehan 9 Medaglia d'Oro
>
>
> 1/2 mile
>
> :45 3/5 1972 North Sea 5 Key to the Mint
> :45 4/5 1967 Tumiga 3 Damascus
> :45 4/5 1980 Superbity 7 Temperence Hill
> :46 1971 Kennedy Road 5 Bold Reason
>
>
> 3/4 mile
>
> 1:09 3/5 1972 North Sea 5 Key to the Mint
> 1:09 4/5 2003 Strong Hope 3 Ten Most Wanted
> 1:10 1929 Man o' War 1 Same
> 1:10 1987 Temperate Sil 8 Java Gold
> 1:10 1/5 1977 Silver Series 3 Jatski
> 1:10 1/5 1980 Amber Pass 3 Temperence Hill
> 1:10 1/5 1983 Slew o' Gold 2 Play Fellow
> 1:10 2/5 1945 Pavot 4 Adonis
> 1:10 2/5 1976 Honest Pleasure 1 Same
> 1:10 2/5 1994 Holy Bull 1 Same
>
> 1 mile
>
> 1:35 1976 Honest Pleasure 1 Same
> 1:35 2/5 1962 Jaipur 1 Same
> 1:35 2/5 1972 Tentam 2 Key to the Mint
> 1:35 2/5 1977 Silver Series 3 Jatski
> 1:35 2/5 1983 Hyperborean 3 Play Fellow
> 1:35 2/5 1992 Dixie Brass 4 Thunder Rumble
> 1:35 2/5 2003 Ten Most Wanted 1 Same
Title: Re: Pharoah to Continue Racing
Post by: Wrongly on September 04, 2015, 06:03:44 AM
P-Dup

Granted.  But in my opinion the Haskell was a knockout performance.  Far higher percentage chance that AP runs off or X than he does of pairing that top.  I\'ll bet my $ that the X is coming in the BC, that\'s if he gets into the gate.
Title: Re: Pharoah to Continue Racing
Post by: miff on September 04, 2015, 07:27:00 AM
Is 0-2-X the same as 0-1.5-X?


...every time I think I\'m out...they keep pulling me back in!
Title: Re: Pharoah to Continue Racing
Post by: KK4510 on September 04, 2015, 08:42:48 AM
IMO  The horse breeding industry is holding the horseplayer hostage in this situation. Their failure to adopt artificial insemination into the breeding process forces the best animals to stud. With the advent of DNA testing, a horses lineage could be verified accurately within days. Why doesn\'t The Jockey Club allow AI and let the best of the best continue to run.
Title: Re: Pharoah to Continue Racing
Post by: richiebee on September 04, 2015, 01:42:19 PM
In \"The Pope of Greenwich Village\", Eric Roberts channels his inner Federico Tesio
and explains \"artificial inspiration\" and \"the champion gene\".


https://youtu.be/VsRcsLAUTLw
Title: Re: Pharoah to Continue Racing
Post by: philywheel on September 04, 2015, 02:28:30 PM
my favorite movie  , loved it
Title: Re: Pharoah to Continue Racing
Post by: alydar61 on September 04, 2015, 05:27:43 PM
Excellent movie! Eric Roberts with a phenomenal performance.