I walked the Spa grounds the other day.....The new people paddock right next to the horse paddock is pretty amusing. If they think 100 tables are fitting inside this area they are either nuts or plan on having each table close enough to be able to share whatever your neighbor is eating/drinking. Plus if your table is near the fence you are praying that everyone will not crowd around to get a closer look at a horse. This will no doubt be a problem. One door in/out and forget allowing a friend to stop by and say hello. Security will be sitting there. Only thing that could help is it will most likely be a college kid so he/she really could care less. If anyone would like to see pics please DM me.
Any idea what they\'re going to do when it rains?
I would guess its not NYRA\'s issue. So 100 tables w 4-6 pple all holding umbrellas up as to stay and get you monies worth out of them is what you\'ll have. lol
Its shocking that this new idea will at some point backfire. The first drunk table spewing venom and having fun with another family sitting within a few feet. Brilliant!
Travers Day should be especially interesting in the paddock area if American Pharaoh were to show up.
For anyone interested, Clueless Kay stumping on Wed 7/22 at Hall Of Fame SPA, takes questions as long as they are not related to racing/player issues
Would like to see AP show up at Belmont for JCGC on Oct 3, 28 days before BC.
Would be interested to see how many fannies an undefeated TC winner could put in
the seats at Belmont, and wonder how NYRA would try to monetize the event.
if those picnic tables are where I think they are, that spot will be worse than the front row at a Dead show.
the notion that handicappers want to get a good look at the horses they bet on is a foreign one I guess, at least to NYRA. they\'ve now cut off more than 80% of the paddock viewing area (unless you want to camp out all day in an area as uncomfortable as anything on the east coast).
it\'s nice having Maggie there, but she only touches on a small % of the runners. I don\'t mind Andy & Jason, actually think they do a good job, but the real estate their tent takes up is more valuable than any info we get. they should do the right thing and relinquish the area.
Mike D,
An official at NYRA informs that the picnic table decision is partially the result of complaints by \"older\" and in some cases disabled customers who are unable to get there at 7:00 am and charge in with the crowd.
As far as the areas reclaimed for the 117 pay tables, there is an open mind by NYRA depending on what they see and hear from customers.
None of what was said explained away the charging for some tables and the bad moves in the backyard.
.......whatever!
Mike
The table area is in a straight line from the back end of the paddock to the boundary fence of the property. It\'s a long very narrow corridor, I should have taken a pic of it today when I went up to get my pass.
The OLD BBQ deck has been replaced with a newer version with a roof, actually they have built 3-4 covered decks, no word as to what they are to be used for?
The Klueless museum is an absolute monstrosity we are under a tornado watch right now maybe it will be taken away!!!
I\'ll post some pics shortly of it, still pounding Vodka over the late Belmont pick 4, had a few tickets in the sequence with Crescent Street @ 14/1 beat on the wire by the 8/5 favorite whom I didn\'t use. $971 pick with the favorite!
Frank D.
Mike,
An interesting date 7/22.
Capital OTB is sponsoring a fund raiser that same evening at the Tele Theather for the permanently disabled jockeys fund; an extremely worth while cause to say the least.
They are giving one of their TV handicappers a $ 500 live bank roll to bet at Delmar with the winnings if any going to the fund. Johnny V, Javier and the Ortiz brothers will be there signing memorabilia, silent auction and local celebrity bartender trainers & owners hawking tips for the cause, Chad Brown, Abigail Adsit, Roddy Valente and Tom Gallo.
God forbid Clueless or anyone from NYRA would get behind a non bottom line \"enhancing\" cause!
I\'ll be there Abby is cute!!!!
Frank D.
Frank,
Very worthy cause. Clueless Kay at HOF at 7:00pm(for any hecklers in the area) Don\'t know if he will show at the fund raiser later.
Have seen Abbie, as a Linda desciple, think she will be ok if she gets decent stock.
Assume you are chomping at the bit!
Mike
miff Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Mike D,
>
> An official at NYRA informs that the picnic table
> decision is partially the result of complaints by
> \"older\" and in some cases disabled customers who
> are unable to get there at 7:00 am and charge in
> with the crowd.
I have no problem with NYRA\'s picnic table policy. Follow me on this one:
1) Forget \"older\" and \"disabled\" (comments which might be used to describe me
after the TG Open). What about young healthy people who wouldn\'t mind plunking
down whatever NYRA is charging for the privilege of being able to sleep an
extra 3 or 4 hours instead of having to join the dawn patrol in order to be
able to lay claim to a table?
2) The old system of first come first served was in some ways inefficient.
These tables can accommodate 6 or 8 folks, but under the old system there was
nothing to prevent two people from spreading their tablecloth and enjoying an
entire table to themselves.
3) The people who commandeer these tables, from my mainly non scientific
observations gleaned over decades, tend to be families, and I would imagine
that a lot of the kiddies and moms are betting absolutely no more than $2 per
race, if that. I have no problem with NYRA squeezing revenue from these folks,
most of whom also bring their own food and beverage.
> As far as the areas reclaimed for the 117 pay
> tables, there is an open mind by NYRA depending on
> what they see and hear from customers.
>
> None of what was said explained away the charging
> for some tables and the bad moves in the
> backyard.
The addition of structures to the facility, other than on the backside, was
never necessary; the ancient grandstand could have undergone renovation. But
Stephen Duncker and Danny Meyer are buddies, so now we have Blue Smoke near the
paddock area. The cutting down of trees, some of which may have endured the
elements for a century or more, to add this Masters rip - off Red Jacket Hall
of Fame was an unnecessary crime against nature. The strip - mallization of the
Saratoga facility will, sadly, continue until the track bears very little
resemblance to the place most of us remember.
The sad thing to me in the last two weeks is that we\'re talking restaurants and
red jackets and picnic tables and the Kay Bomb. We should be talking about
RACING. What, if any, trainers, jockeys and horses are coming from
different circuits? Will Jimmy Jerkens go 3 ply in the Whitney with Wicked
Strong, Effinex and Spa lover VE Day? How many times will Frank D get beat out
of a pick 4 by a jump horse racing on the flat, or by a Finger Lakes
shipper?
People are wringing their hands about the abandonment of tradition, but the
only real Saratoga tradition which matters is great racing; if the racing is
not great, or at least significantly better than the downstate product, I
wouldn\'t care less if they rolled back all of the prices and restored some of
the traditions like free picnic tables, the ping pong table outside of the
jocks room, or the old saddling regimen where each runner had their own tree
and walking ring.
If NYRA will not present a quality racing product at the Spa, they can plop a
miniature golf course in the backyard and bring in a load of overpriced food
and beverage options, and lets see if Kay\'s family fun people can push
enough through the windows to support racing.
> .......whatever!
>
>
> Mike
miff Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Travers Day should be especially interesting in
> the paddock area if American Pharaoh were to show
> up.
>
> For anyone interested, Clueless Kay stumping on
> Wed 7/22 at Hall Of Fame SPA, takes questions as
> long as they are not related to racing/player
> issues
Was there last year . . . will be there this year . . . won\'t say a word, but look forward to seeing and taking notes on a number of visitors whose feelings have been hurt to the extent that they won\'t take \"no\" for an answer as they generate questions that Kay might find uncomfortable. Watching Kay endlessly take the fifth would be endlessly entertaining.
Bee,
The meet will be fine, racing wise, though I suspect that grass races will be oversubscribed and dirt races tougher to fill.NYRA will card too many races, per usual,watering down quality.
Agree with frontside facelift but backyard changes horrific.NYRA could easily accommodated picnic table situation without money grab. As far as those families that you correctly note come with food etc, me thinks they are part of the whole SPA experience even though they don\'t bet much $$. Nice families blending in with us degenerates, it\'s Americana!
Stand by my rants that Chris Kay is a f-king idiot and NYRA is the most incompetent group running a major venue.NYRA\'s disregard for the gambler is disgraceful.
Mike
miff Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Bee,
>
> The meet will be fine, racing wise, though I
> suspect that grass races will be oversubscribed
> and dirt races tougher to fill.NYRA will card too
> many races, per usual,watering down quality.
>
> Agree with frontside facelift but backyard changes
> horrific.NYRA could easily accommodated picnic
> table situation without money grab. As far as
> those families that you correctly note come with
> food etc, me thinks they are part of the whole SPA
> experience even though they don\'t bet much $$.
> Nice families blending in with us degenerates,
> it\'s Americana!
>
> Stand by my rants that Chris Kay is a f-king idiot
> and NYRA is the most incompetent group running a
> major venue.NYRA\'s disregard for the gambler is
> disgraceful.
>
> Mike
Mike, I think you correctly identify that it\'s at least a two-prong approach. As Richie suggests, the quality of racing is paramount. Beyond that, you look at the value of the Saratoga meet as a one-of-a-kind opportunity to promote the game. For example, is there value in encouraging family participation even if they don\'t move the meter at the windows, just because a few of them might one day grow into actual players? Those of us in Act 2, however that number might be defined, will probably continue to come, regardless, but just grouse more. But, what do they have that will continue to lure the next wave? The intrinsic appeal of the game is not going to be enough as it\'s currently configured. Bells and whistles have to be added in terms of technological hooks. But, Saratoga stands apart from that. Defining and preserving that character should be paramount in the business plan. I\'m not seeing it.
Guys,
Do not underestimate the level of disconnect between Kay/NYRA and 99% of the people on this board and most other gamblers.
In more than one face to face with top NYRA Execs I was floored by their basic lack of knowledge or interest in the gambling side of racing.
Mike
miff Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Travers Day should be especially interesting in
> the paddock area if American Pharaoh were to show
> up.
>
> For anyone interested, Clueless Kay stumping on
> Wed 7/22 at Hall Of Fame SPA, takes questions as
> long as they are not related to racing/player
> issues
Would love to visit the direct source/attribution re the concluding phrase of the above reference.
Usually someone from DRF or a local newspaper shows up and reports on the content of Clueless Kay\'s vanilla comments.
Divorce between NYRA and DRF seems final as Clueless Kay refused to be interviewed by DRF\'s NY guy,Dave Grening,pre meeting.
Bloodhorse:
Two days before the opening of a Saratoga Race Course meet that will see a number of changes from previous years, a near-capacity crowd at the National Museum of Racing and Hall of Fame had plenty of questions for New York Racing Association president Christopher Kay.
The Hall of Fame hosted its annual meet preview panel for the local community the evening of July 22. This year\'s panel included Kay, NYRA race caller Larry Collmus, trainer Gary Contessa, and television and radio host Steve Byk. The panel was moderated by Brien Bouyea, the museum\'s communications officer.
The crowd predictably peppered Kay with questions about changes for the meet that begins July 24, including new charges for seating in the Carousel Restaurant and backyard picnic area, proposed development on racetrack property, purse structure, and elimination of the track\'s open house, held traditionally the Sunday before opening day.
As he has at other recent public forums, Kay insisted that the cancellation of the open house was not a unilateral NYRA decision, but one taken in conjunction with the local chamber of commerce. According to Kay, Todd Shimkus, president of the Saratoga Chamber of Commerce, said the annual event had \"run its course\" and that the local non-profits that had participated became dissatisfied with the lack of significant fundraising that occurred.
Kay said cancellation of the open house was done to support the people of Saratoga, and he pointed out that non-profits were given the opportunity to have a day in the track\'s Community Outreach booth, which would offer more fundraising potential because of the larger crowds on a racing day.
Kay also explained the reasoning behind the new reservation policies for the lower level of the Carousel, which is being redeveloped into a sports bar, and for 100 picnic tables in the backyard. He said the reservations provided an opportunity for customers to reserve a table without having to arrive early and rush to secure one. Several members of the audience expressed their support for the new initiative.
Kay was less certain when asked about details of the new projects. He seemed unaware that the proposed redevelopment plan, which has been widely distributed and the subject of open forums in Saratoga Springs, includes expanding the backyard out to Union Avenue. And when asked how late the new sports bar would stay open, he said, \"I don\'t know.\"
Asked about changes in purse structure, he told a questioner he would take her name and ask NYRA\'s senior vice president of racing operations, Martin Panza, to get back to her.
Trainer Gary Contessa fielded several questions about the basics of horse ownership and training, such as morning workouts and working with jockeys\' agents, and announced that he would hold three fan education seminars this summer, one at his barn and two at the Hall of Fame.
\"It\'s my way of giving a little bit back,\" Contessa said.
Echoing a statement he has made publicly several times, Kay said \"owners are the lifeblood\" of horse racing and that he was most looking forward to honoring owners and breeders Marylou Whitney and Ogden Mills \"Dinny\" Phipps in the third red jacket ceremony this year, the day before the Travers Stakes (gr. I).They will join trainers Allen Jerkens and D. Wayne Lukas; jockeys John Velazquez, Angel Cordero Jr., and Jerry Bailey; and retired NYRA race caller Tom Durkin in the newly-constructed Walk of Fame on the racetrack grounds.
In addition to owners, Kay said horseplayers and fans are the most important people in racing. He said he is looking forward to the summer handicapping contests at Saratoga and to soliciting feedback from fans on the changes at the track.
\"I\'m looking forward to seeing how people react,\" he said. \"The Walk of Fame, the new lower Carousel—how are people going to react to them?\"
While initial reactions have leaned toward the negative regarding some of the changes, the audience offered a mix of feedback, with the most vehement coming from those opposed to them. Nevertheless, Kay said he\'d be out among NYRA\'s customers this summer.
\"I\'m there every day,\" he said. \"In the backyard, in the clubhouse, in the grandstand, asking people what they think.\"
miff Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Trainer Gary Contessa fielded several questions
> about the basics of horse ownership and training,
> such as morning workouts and working with jockeys\'
> agents, and announced that he would hold three fan
> education seminars this summer, one at his barn
> and two at the Hall of Fame.
Which is about the only way this lifetime 10% trainer (who seems like a good
guy) will ever get in the Hall of Fame.
> In addition to owners, Kay said horseplayers and
> fans are the most important people in racing. He
> said he is looking forward to the summer
> handicapping contests at Saratoga and to
> soliciting feedback from fans on the changes at
> the track.
The impression I get from Kay is that he finds gambling of all sorts rather
unsavory, and would love to figure out how to operate a racetrack without
gambling and gamblers.
> \"I\'m looking forward to seeing how people react,\"
> he said. \"The Walk of Fame, the new lower
> Carousel—how are people going to react to them?\"
>
> While initial reactions have leaned toward the
> negative regarding some of the changes, the
> audience offered a mix of feedback, with the most
> vehement coming from those opposed to them.
> Nevertheless, Kay said he\'d be out among NYRA\'s
> customers this summer.
>
> \"I\'m there every day,\" he said. \"In the backyard,
> in the clubhouse, in the grandstand, asking people
> what they think.\"
I think after one encounter with Frank D., Kay would reconsider mingling
with the masses and requisition a \"Popemobile\" like vehicle for his visits to
the clubhouse and grandstand.
I almost had a thrombo the first look I had at opening day entries -- the card
starts with 3 NYB races -- but overall the card is a good mix of turf/dirt,
short/long, classy/cheap and I hope Panza holds up his end this summer.
miff Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Divorce between NYRA and DRF seems final as
> Clueless Kay refused to be interviewed by DRF\'s NY
> guy,Dave Grening,pre meeting.
>
>
>
Yeah, Dave told me that, too.
richiebee Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> miff Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
>
>
>
>
> > In addition to owners, Kay said horseplayers
> and
> > fans are the most important people in racing.
> He
> > said he is looking forward to the summer
> > handicapping contests at Saratoga and to
> > soliciting feedback from fans on the changes at
> > the track.
>
> The impression I get from Kay is that he finds
> gambling of all sorts rather
> unsavory, and would love to figure out how to
> operate a racetrack without
> gambling and gamblers.
Kay\'s obviously heard the background music re horseplayers, while Kay endlessly gushes about owners (who are OBVIOUSLY the yang to big bettors\' yin, in the revenue department -- I\'ve harped upon it enough, in other venues -- but Kay categorically targeted his horseplayer praise to handicapping tournaments, while noting he\'d love NYRA to host more of them.
Where the hell does this guy think all those tote-board pool numbers come from?
>
>
>
On the people paddock issue, I think NYRA will quickly learn that there will be a lot of price resistance and empty tables. I\'ll bet that it will be virtually empty on weekdays...
richiebee Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
> The impression I get from Kay is that he finds
> gambling of all sorts rather
> unsavory, and would love to figure out how to
> operate a racetrack without
> gambling and gamblers.
>
>
If that\'s the case, we can send him over to UAE and let him run the tracks over there.
Deadrockstar Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> On the people paddock issue, I think NYRA will
> quickly learn that there will be a lot of price
> resistance and empty tables. I\'ll bet that it will
> be virtually empty on weekdays...
He claimed the early returns were positive, especially for the weekends . . . we\'ll see, this week. . . .and Sunday/Monday rains should prove most instructive.
toppled Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> richiebee Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> >
> > The impression I get from Kay is that he finds
> > gambling of all sorts rather
> > unsavory, and would love to figure out how to
> > operate a racetrack without
> > gambling and gamblers.
> >
> >
>
>
> If that\'s the case, we can send him over to UAE
> and let him run the tracks over there.
If we had a \"like\" button on this bulletin board, I would like this.