A very interesting Preakness addition very eligible to move forward off his pairs.
Broke through his 2 yr old top by 2 points first start at 3, draw a line through the Tampa race and this a very healthy pattern.
Anyone see the top 3 from the Derby moving forward? This one will be 20/1 if Pletcher comes in with any of his.
Good luck,
Frank D.
Hi Frank,
Watch Danzig Moon get bounced around pretty good early on in the derby, ran ok. Would think that top derby 3 have to run off races and DM go forward to have a legit shot. Reportedly still working well and looking good.
Good luck
Mike
Just a thought Mike! A ZERO may be good enough to take this heat after what the top 3 went through on that track?
Frank,
Shortish Preak field may compress odds on DM. TAP still on fence with Carpe and Materiality both of whom working good at Belmont.Think Materiality could win Belmont if he skips Preakness and AP gets beat up more in a Preakness win.
Mike
Dortmund almost has to move forward at some point but maybe that happens with rest or a different trip where he isn\'t on the front end.
Can\'t see FL or AP moving forward and probably playing for both to go back on the quick turnaround.
Danzig Moon will be the chalk in the Queens Plate over Ami\'s Flatter but that isn\'t until July 5th so why not take a shot in the Preakness if he\'s doing well? Question marks would be moving forward on two weeks rest and he\'s already improved five points off the two year old top.
I\'m interested to see Divining Rods sheet who will be longer than DM.
His Lexington was impressive given the style change where they got him relaxed off the engine(dueling too fast early in the TBDerby) and back in the pocket eating dirt.He came home fast(last 1/16th in 6.12)that day and has another five weeks into the Preakness.Breeding is there to handle more than 8.5f\'s so I could see him moving forward.
Jock assignment will be interesting with the Leper sticking with Danzig Moon.
big18741 Wrote:
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> Dortmund almost has to move forward at some point
> but maybe that happens with rest or a different
> trip where he isn\'t on the front end.
>
> Can\'t see FL or AP moving forward and probably
> playing for both to go back on the quick
> turnaround.
I hope AP wins the Preakness. I want to hear NYRA\'s overpaid at any price
Chief Experience Officer explain how she decided to turn away up to 60,000
potential patrons and the revenue they could have generated, rather than
trying to gameplan for a huge crowd. The pathetic path of least resistance
taken by a management team which is not vested in the future of racing in
general and especially NY racing.
> Danzig Moon will be the chalk in the Queens Plate
> over Ami\'s Flatter but that isn\'t until July 5th
> so why not take a shot in the Preakness if he\'s
> doing well? Question marks would be moving forward
> on two weeks rest and he\'s already improved five
> points off the two year old top.
The runner up in the Peter Pan is an Ontario Bred not nominated for the
Triple Crown. Would expect to see him in the QP, and based on a brief paddock
impression, would love to see him in the leg of the Canadian Triple Crown
which is run on turf (hoof shape).
> I\'m interested to see Divining Rods sheet who will
> be longer than DM.
>
> His Lexington was impressive given the style
> change where they got him relaxed off the
> engine(dueling too fast early in the TBDerby) and
> back in the pocket eating dirt.He came home
> fast(last 1/16th in 6.12)that day and has another
> five weeks into the Preakness.Breeding is there to
> handle more than 8.5f\'s so I could see him moving
> forward.
I wish they would wait for the Belmont with DivRod (\"cheated\" in the words
of one of those lovable and well named Dumb Ass Partners). Let this son of
Tapit (sire of Tonalist, last years\' Belmont winner) prep in a sprint between
now and then. Let him catch a weary band of Derby and Preakness participants.
Another son of Tapit, Frosted, should be strong in front of this restricted crowd of 90,000
> Jock assignment will be interesting with the Leper
> sticking with Danzig Moon.
>
> I hope AP wins the Preakness. I want to hear
> NYRA\'s overpaid at any price
> Chief Experience Officer explain how she decided
> to turn away up to 60,000
> potential patrons and the revenue they could have
> generated, rather than
> trying to gameplan for a huge crowd. The pathetic
> path of least resistance
> taken by a management team which is not vested in
> the future of racing in
> general and especially NY racing.
>
i don\'t necessarily agree with this point. There is a reasonable capacity for any venue beyond which no amount of planning can completely accommodate.....not sure what that breaking point is but they certainly reached it last year. I\'m sure their motives are not purely in the interest of those who already have tickets and that they want to avoid embarrassment by another fiasco, but putting fan comfort ahead of increased gate revenue is the right move. As one who already bought tickets I\'m grateful that I only have to deal with 90k other lunatics vs 150k.
Bet Twice,
As a fellow patron with tickets in hand and a survivor of last years complete fiasco I have to agree with you about limiting the crowd size.
They know their limitations and this applies to the concessioner Center Plate as well. Last year there was a very popular horse in CC going for the triple crown, the weather forecast was picture perfect and they actually expected a record crowd surpassing the Smarty Jones Belmont crowd of 120,000. They were horrifically unprepared across the board as was the previous management team the last tine NY hosted the BC. EMBARRASSING!!!
The interesting scenario for me is what will they draw without a crown on the line? They have put together a mini BC in June; A normal non crown Belmont Stakes crowd is in the 50,000 range with what they have done bundling the stakes I would think 70,000 would be a realistic target. As many of us know who have been to big sandy over the years 50-60,000 can be handled very comfortably there. It is America\'s largest race plant by far and drew 40,000 plus every Saturday back in the day.
What they really need to do is make an investment in utilizing the massive infield for a triple crown or BC event. Install a tunnel and temporary infrastructure of betting, concessions and restrooms could be brought in via tents or constructing some basic buildings. Using the infield would allow accommodation for a Derby like crowd and the Goo Goo Dolls.
Frank D.
I was at the \'99 Belmont, there were about 90,000 there. Bought seats near the 1/8th pole, high up in the grandstand, on our way in for face value. Got in and out of there easily enough (we stayed for the race after the Belmont and still were well on our way back north by the time we heard the live call of Larry Johnson\'s 4 point play). Had no trouble placing bets, other than one teller that didn\'t seem to know what he was doing. Was actually pleasantly surprised at my experience that day since I was also at the \'95 Breeder\'s Cup, which saw them screw the pooch despite only about half of 90,000 in the place.
If they\'re not going to open the infield, probably better to cap attendance. Friend of mine from work told me her husband and son went down last year on a bus trip; they left Saratoga at about 6:00 in the morning, got home well after midnight, and were unable to eat, drink, or gamble for the last few hours at the track. And those last few hours were followed by several hours sitting on a bus going nowhere in the parking lot. These folks will never be going to a Belmont again.
You\'d think an organization run by Mr. Guest Experience could handle a huge crowd w/enough advance planning; but even things that should have been lay-ups, such as getting adequate Wi-Fi in there, they were either too cheap or too incompetent to get done, so probably better for them to limit the damage.
Some solid responses in favor of NYRA\'s decision to limit the gate to 90,000
people on Belmont Day, and Frank\'s suggestion that the infield might be used
is a viable one, even if infielders at Belmont would be even further more
removed from the action than their counterparts in Louisville and Baltimore.
NYRA\'s decision to limit the gate is unimaginative and counterproductive, and
with 90,000 people NYRA could still manage to provide a subpar customer
experience on Belmont Day if they are not prepared.
What I would have liked to have seen is Belmont\'s highly paid Chief Experience
Officer announce, a couple of days after AmPhar\'s victory, that NYRA had been
working on a contingency plan for the last 11 months, a plan that would allow
NYRA to host nearly 150,000 racegoers hoping to witness sports history on
Belmont Day.
The unimaginative part of this plan involves providing mass quantities of food
(mostly weenies) and beverages (beer, water, soda). Row after row of temporary
comfort facilities. If it turns out there is a surplus of food or beverage,
NYRA could host what would probably be a wildly popular promotion where for
$15.00 admission (instead of the normal $5.00) a fan attending the races
after Belmont Day would be entitled to unlimited beer or hot dogs. NYRA
could even sell a ticket which Frank D will probably snarkily call the
\"Richiebee\" special, where for $25 one could enjoy unlimited beer AND hot
dogs...
With regards to comfort facilities, NYRA could make long needed
renovations to certain of its stationary rest rooms and sell a \"Privy Pass\"
for those who are adverse to utilizing temporary comfort stations. [Note to
the Chief Experience Officer: I attended Belmont Saturday and used the mens
room on the third floor of the grandstand. Other than the fact that the racist
graffiti and the sketches of the genitalia of both genders have been updated,
this rest room has basically not been renovated since the first Belmont I
attended (1975, Avatar, Bill Shoemaker).]
The more complex part of the plan would involve interfacing with local law
enforcement, local governments, business, etc. The transportation logistics
plan would involve severely curtailing on track parking on Belmont Day.
Certain locations around the City could be designated \"collection areas\" where
folks could park and be taken to Belmont by bus. Think Citi Field or Yankee
Stadium, Fort Wadsworth in Staten Island (would be good for Jersey folks),
Green Acres Mall,etc. Make certain there are bus connections to the major
transit hubs such as the Jamaica station of the LIRR, Grand Central Station,
Port Authority etc. (Note to NYRA: When I say \"bus\", I mean a well appointed
bus with a lavatory and television monitors, not a death cheese yellow school
bus). Traffic on the arterial highways around the facility would have to be
monitored and managed the moment the field crosses the wire in the Belmont.
This type of transportation plan is something the folks at Keeneland were
apparently working on even in advance of being awarded the 2015 BC.
I guess only a quasi public organization such as NYRA, staffed by overpaid and
unimaginative non incentivized management, could turn away potentially tens of
millions of dollars of profit (think of the overhead on weenies, soda and
beer) and tens of millions of dollars of onsite handle. While any other
organization would be salivating at the opportunity to maximize revenue on
what could be a huge day, NYRA takes a stand on unimaginative middle ground,
flying a flag which says something like \"Expect Mediocrity\". Sad.
Just a note that some most excellent seats for the Belmont Day festivities are
available on Stub Hub. Located on the second level of what used to be called
the Clubhouse, these seats are in section \"N\" and \"O\", just on the finish line
side of the 1/16th pole. Asking price: $1760.00.
I will check back on these seats Sunday after the Preakness.
Last time I checked StubHub there were tickets out there asking for a premium in sections where seats are still available from NYRA/Ticketmaster.
First thing I thought of on your unlimited beer suggestion is after they get loaded, releasing the drunks onto the Cross Island, Belt & Southern State Parkways. They can call it the NYRA Demolition Derby.
PS: The best bus may be those Rally buses leaving from NYC (near Penn Station) & NJ. If there\'s a Triple Crown on the line, I\'m going. I may take a train from Albany to Penn Station & go on the rally bus for $55 (raised $5 this week) instead of dealing with the LIRR.
Richie-- if sketches of genitalia really had to be updated, I need to get out more. And it also raises the question of how you would know...
TGJB Wrote:
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> Richie-- if sketches of genitalia really had to be
> updated, I need to get out more. And it also
> raises the question of how you would know...
JB-- \"get out more\"? What, are we talking seven nights a week instead of six?
You gave my rendering a much more literal reading than it deserved. The only
change in genitalia I\'ve noticed over the years is personal and disappointing...
I merely meant that the drawing of genitalia which was on the stall wall on
the day Avatar took the Belmont 40 years ago has been scrubbed off and
replaced numerous times.
Toppled: Actually the unlimited weenie and/or beer offer was made a) slightly
tongue in cheek and b) intended for a day sometime after Belmont day, and
query how much vehicular damage could be done by drivers, drunken or
otherwise, when traffic is moving at 5 mph.
Not to marginalize the impaired driving issue, but the truth is the next time
I go to Belmont, I can bring a case or two of canned beer through the
admission gate and leave with an empty cooler; after such conspicuous
consumption, no NYRA official will attempt to prevent me from driving home.
So you want the Belmont Stakes Day to look more like Derby Day?
I\'ve never made it to Belmont Day. But from what I\'ve heard it is disappointing compared to Derby Day...not the racing but the vibe, experience, etc. Seems ridiculous all tracks don\'t open up the infields more often. Oaklawn does in some years on Ark Derby or Rebel Day I think. Pimlico has had success right albeit a rowdy drunken crowd.
Seems obvious that opening the infield for its own unique experience (hmmm where else does this happen?) would be a no brainer esp years with a Triple Crown on the line.
richiebee Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The more complex part of the plan would involve
> interfacing with local law
> enforcement, local governments, business, etc. The
> transportation logistics
> plan would involve severely curtailing on track
> parking on Belmont Day.
> Certain locations around the City could be
> designated \"collection areas\" where
> folks could park and be taken to Belmont by bus.
> Think Citi Field or Yankee
> Stadium, Fort Wadsworth in Staten Island (would be
> good for Jersey folks),
> Green Acres Mall,etc. Make certain there are bus
> connections to the major
> transit hubs such as the Jamaica station of the
> LIRR, Grand Central Station,
> Port Authority etc. (Note to NYRA: When I say
> \"bus\", I mean a well appointed
> bus with a lavatory and television monitors, not a
> death cheese yellow school
> bus). Traffic on the arterial highways around the
> facility would have to be
> monitored and managed the moment the field crosses
> the wire in the Belmont.
> This type of transportation plan is something the
> folks at Keeneland were
> apparently working on even in advance of being
> awarded the 2015 BC.
Richie, I\'m guessing the folks who would be responsible for implementing that would look at what you wrote and say, \"Screw that.\" Of course, you more or less implied that when you characterized them as quasi-public, non-incentivized management.
As for that $25 \"Richiebee special\", if FrankD is to be believed, they\'d lose money on it.
Fairmount1 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Seems ridiculous all tracks don\'t open up
> the infields more often. Oaklawn does in some
> years on Ark Derby or Rebel Day I think. Pimlico
> has had success right albeit a rowdy drunken
> crowd.
>
> Seems obvious that opening the infield for its own
> unique experience (hmmm where else does this
> happen?) would be a no brainer esp years with a
> Triple Crown on the line.
Santa Anita has a beautiful infield, and hosts many events there. On weekends its a great place to hang out.
Richie & Roger,
Boys, Boys, Boys you disappointment me!
Frank D. would never be associated with cheapening the image of our beloved Richiebee; actually I\'d love to patten him and take him on the road.
It would be Richiebee and the Heineken girls with race track treasures from Uncle Bill Spillane and free admission to a T-graph seminar bundled with a sheet package for $99. It would be premium beer and straight from Milwaukee bratwurst with a possible comeback of the Carolina BBQ signature sandwich the Frank D. (BBQ pot roast with horseradish & Carolina red sauce)
In the words of George C. Scott in Patton \"pearl handled revolvers;only a cheap New Orleans pimp would have pearl handled pistols,these are Ivory\"
Frank D.
richiebee Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Just a note that some most excellent seats for the
> Belmont Day festivities are
> available on Stub Hub. Located on the second level
> of what used to be called
> the Clubhouse, these seats are in section \"N\" and
> \"O\", just on the finish line
> side of the 1/16th pole. Asking price: $1760.00.
>
> I will check back on these seats Sunday after the
> Preakness.
Sorry, I waited until Monday.
Seats in Section N, second level clubhouse, currently on Stub
Hub for $3345.00.
richiebee Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> richiebee Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
>
> > Just a note that some most excellent seats for
> the
> > Belmont Day festivities are
> > available on Stub Hub. Located on the second
> level
> > of what used to be called
> > the Clubhouse, these seats are in section \"N\"
> and
> > \"O\", just on the finish line
> > side of the 1/16th pole. Asking price:
> $1760.00.
> >
> > I will check back on these seats Sunday after
> the
> > Preakness.
>
> Sorry, I waited until Monday.
>
> Seats in Section N, second level clubhouse,
> currently on Stub
> Hub for $3345.00.
People actually pay these prices??
I love horse racing, don\'t mind shelling out several hundred for BC weekend.
I get that it\'s the Triple Crown, history, all that.
But 3+ dimes a seat??
P-Dub:
That is a price listed on Stub Hub; no assurance that the \"asked\" will be a
\"bid\" for somebody. I\'m sure this asking price will be reduced incrementally each
day there is no bid on this seat. Also my reporting is incomplete as I would like
to be able to share what the face value of this ticket is.
These seats have a great sight line and can be had on any non event day for the
general admission cost of $5.
As to what I would pay, probably no more than $200 for a decent seat, and this
would be mostly to see how NYRA performs under pressure. These long days of racing
with long intervals between races are tailor made for Living Room Downs.
richiebee Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> P-Dub:
>
> That is a price listed on Stub Hub; no assurance
> that the \"asked\" will be a
> \"bid\" for somebody. I\'m sure this asking price
> will be reduced incrementally each
> day there is no bid on this seat. Also my
> reporting is incomplete as I would like
> to be able to share what the face value of this
> ticket is.
>
> These seats have a great sight line and can be had
> on any non event day for the
> general admission cost of $5.
>
> As to what I would pay, probably no more than $200
> for a decent seat, and this
> would be mostly to see how NYRA performs under
> pressure. These long days of racing
> with long intervals between races are tailor made
> for Living Room Downs.
Sections N, O and P on second floor are part of \"extended Clubhouse\". Face value is 175 for Saturday with a $25 ticket for Friday. (Which had to be purchased)
That is my favorite track