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General Category => Ask the Experts => Topic started by: nicely nicely on October 02, 2014, 10:36:29 PM

Title: Jerry Brown's Op-Ed piece regarding Lasix and Racing
Post by: nicely nicely on October 02, 2014, 10:36:29 PM
http://www.thoroughbreddailynews.com/shared_content.cfm?id=934
Title: Re: Jerry Brown's Op-Ed piece regarding Lasix and Racing
Post by: miff on October 03, 2014, 07:55:14 AM
Hopefully the Clueless Clowns will be enlightened as to the opinion of a majority of those betting the money.
Title: Re: Jerry Brown's Op-Ed piece regarding Lasix and Racing
Post by: vired on October 03, 2014, 08:22:11 AM
great op=ed jb. hope someone pays attention. ed
Title: Re: Jerry Brown's Op-Ed piece regarding Lasix and Racing
Post by: P-Dub on October 03, 2014, 12:07:10 PM
Wow.  That was good.
Title: Re: Jerry Brown's Op-Ed piece regarding Lasix and Racing
Post by: Mall on October 03, 2014, 03:21:16 PM
As I see it, one of the most disturbing trends over the last decade or so has been the way experts in one subject, as well many others who are not experts in any subject, are willing to make authoritative sounding pronouncements on issues they know very little or nothing about, without doing even basic research. On this issue at least, now there's information and an opinion from someone who actually is an expert on the subject. Well done TGJB.

I'm not up to date on the nasal strip issue, but I do remember the long fight necessary before the industry finally gave in and disclosed whether a horse was running on Lasix, after taking (for almost two years, if memory serves) the bizarre position that such disclosure would only "confuse" bettors. At first glance, the issues certainly seem similar to someone who believes as a basic proposition in both full disclosure and that players are more than capable of deciding whether and how to use whatever information is disclosed.

Finally, perhaps you can correct me if I'm wrong hooper, but my understanding is that in Europe and most other non-lasix countries, horses can and regularly do train on Lasix, and that the only difference between us and them is that horses there cannot race on Lasix, which typically means it can't be administered within something like 72 hours of a race.
Title: Re: Jerry Brown's Op-Ed piece regarding Lasix and Racing
Post by: hooper on October 03, 2014, 04:04:57 PM
Correct,Mall. Interesting piece about some trainers in France. http://therail.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/05/30/race-day-medication-the-view-from-overseas/
I've had horses that bled in competition and were given mandatory 90 days on the sideline.
Title: Re: Jerry Brown's Op-Ed piece regarding Lasix and Racing
Post by: Beau on October 03, 2014, 07:00:42 PM
Great piece Jerry!

Thanks for writing this!!
Title: Jerry Brown's Op-Ed piece - Barry Irwin's Response
Post by: nicely nicely on October 04, 2014, 07:54:20 AM
http://www.thoroughbreddailynews.com/shared_content.cfm?id=951
Title: Re: Jerry Brown's Op-Ed piece - Barry Irwin's Response
Post by: TGJB on October 04, 2014, 11:29:35 AM
Sue Finley advises me that so far the response has been 100% against Irwin\'s viewpoint. She got two letters from familiar posters here, I think she\'s going to run both.

My own response will come in a couple of days.
Title: Re: Jerry Brown's Op-Ed piece - Barry Irwin's Response
Post by: miff on October 04, 2014, 12:23:25 PM
Irwin a transparent phony trying to align himself with the elitist breeder/owner who believe gamblers should not have a seat at the table.
Title: Re: Jerry Brown's Op-Ed piece - Barry Irwin's Response
Post by: johnnym on October 04, 2014, 09:32:57 PM
It is a business first,how blind can one be?
Title: Re: Jerry Brown's Op-Ed piece regarding Lasix and Racing
Post by: Topcat on October 05, 2014, 06:09:00 AM
nicely nicely Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> http://www.thoroughbreddailynews.com/shared_conten
> t.cfm?id=934


In this spat, Doc Bramlage is out of line -- and out of touch.
Title: Re: Jerry Brown's Op-Ed piece - Barry Irwin's Response
Post by: Otis Bones on October 05, 2014, 03:04:44 PM
Racing in Hong Kong is already viewed as having integrity whereas racing in the US is not.  If want to build integrity here, don\'t focus first on legal meds with therapeutic value such as Lasix and steroids that get press but do little to address integrity.  A better start would be a consistent medication policy from venue to venue, consistent enforcement of penalties, out of competition testing, a central governing body that enforces the standards of the game rather than cover up violations not to mention better treatment of horses before, during and after their racing careers.  And last I checked, Mr. Irwin also derives his revenue from the \'business\' of racing.
Title: Re: Jerry Brown's Op-Ed piece - Barry Irwin's Response
Post by: Silver Charm on October 05, 2014, 05:47:35 PM
Barry used to post here periodically and has been consistent with his position. Clean up the medication problem like Hong Kong and the whales will pile in to the Pools.

Interesting how he referenced Jerry as being set in his ways and an in-your-face guy! I logged in one evening to fine this message below in my In-Box. We kissed and made up, I sent him my cell # etc and when I bump in on the rare occasion say hello. I actually joked that I didn\'t realize I was being taken that seriously but nonetheless stood by what I had said.....whatever that was. He responded by saying Pletcher was the cleanest Trainer in the Sport....ahhhhh ok. But Barry is a good guy and has a passion. He also sells a racing product.

Wise Up

From: Barry Irwin

To: Silver Charm  

Date: 04/13/2008 06:06PM


You are demeaning yourself with your persistent irresponsible attitude. You have absolutely no f----ing idea what you are writing about. I know you like doing this @#$%& to see what type of reaction you get, but you are doing the sport and yourself no favors.
Title: Re: Jerry Brown's Op-Ed piece - Barry Irwin's Response
Post by: Flighted Iron on October 06, 2014, 09:44:57 AM
found it patronizing and condescending. OH yeah, lose the sunglasses.
Title: Re: Jerry Brown's Op-Ed piece - Barry Irwin's Response
Post by: TGJB on October 06, 2014, 10:24:53 AM
Just finished my response, should run tomorrow.
Title: Re: Jerry Brown's Op-Ed piece - Barry Irwin's Response
Post by: drbillym on October 06, 2014, 01:15:40 PM
For a good perspective on lasix use in Australia, see agameofskill.com and read a great article by Andy Kelzenberg.
Title: Jerry Brown's Response to Irwin
Post by: nicely nicely on October 06, 2014, 08:18:50 PM
http://www.thoroughbreddailynews.com/shared_content.cfm?id=983
Title: Re: Jerry Brown's Response to Irwin
Post by: banditbeau on October 07, 2014, 07:34:02 AM
Accurate analogies JB \"-football is a sport; the NFL is a business. Baseball is a sport; MLB is a business. Golf, the PGA\".  It is possible that the overriding reason why this may never change in the future lies in the fact there is no real reason to do so.  Why? It seems the current analogy has to end with racing is the sport;casino\'s are the business. And their interest in seeing this idea evolve has to them only a small bump on their bottom line. They seem to now be pretty much in control of racing\'s fate. They would need to be the commissioner racing lacks. They have way more influence than someone at the Jockey Club, or anyone else for that matter opining on these topics.  If they handed out an edict, either way, on the medication issue(s) we discuss continually, and tied their \"subsidies\" to compliance, then since money talks, racing\'s fate (and medication rules) would again be decided by them?

 bb
Title: Re: Jerry Brown's Response to Irwin
Post by: miff on October 07, 2014, 08:24:06 AM
\"They(Casinos) seem to now be pretty much in control of racing\'s fate\"


For those who missed it, the National Casino lobby is making loud noise to the States and Feds. They are putting up a good case as to why they should NO LONGER have to subsidize racing given the downward casino trend in places like Atlantic City and even Vegas.

In Albany NY,the Casino lobby is up Cuomo\'s derriere about NOT giving any subsidy guarantees to racing once the casinos open, in spite of legislation on the books. Genting(Aqueduct slots) is already asking for relief from giving NYRA any subsidies once full blown casinos open in NY State and take some of Genting\'s business.

Given the overall state of racing,its future does not lie with the creation of any central body or uniformity of rules on drugs/penalties et al.This will all come down to how the Governors in the major racing States(NY Cali KY FL)decide on future subsidies and I would not bet either way because its that close. Without subsidies there will have to be a major contraction, obviously.Without subsidies there is no guarantee the game survives except for maybe the premier boutique type meets.No certainty of that either as the flow of big investment money into the game may dry up.

Very cloudy racing environment going forward.My guess is the racing lights stay on but, if not, I\'d bet the Clueless Clowns and politically appointed stooges running the game will still be arguing over nonsense like lasix,in the dark.
Title: Re: Jerry Brown's Op-Ed piece - Barry Irwin's Response
Post by: JohnTChance on October 08, 2014, 02:59:00 PM
Thought Irwin\'s writing style sophomoric. That of a high-schooler.

- [Jerry] \"seeks to surround that vessel with his whales.\" Ugh.

- \"The dream of every horseplayer WORTH HIS SALT would be a card of 12 races, all at 6 furlongs on a dirt track...\" Wrong Barry. Are you just stupid?

- \"When all is said and done, and the Fat Lady has indeed sung that last note...\" Ugh.

Telling when Irwin took his horses from trainer Graham Motion. Dumb move. Good plan, Bar! As to the decision to give recent 2 yr. old debut winner SAVOY STOMP to Pletcher instead of his current trainer Mettee at Fair Hill, I suspect that was really a directive of Pletcher\'s vet (who serves both Pletcher and Mettee) who didn\'t want to drive back and forth to Fair Hill all the time. The stuff of legends.