because there are enough people that do that already but how hard would it be to move the Breeders Cup away from Halloween?
The first thing anyone ever laments about in horse racing is that \"there aren\'t enough young people in the game\"
so what does the brain trust in charge of the Breeders Cup do? They schedule the biggest event of the year on a day that makes it very difficult for parents of young children (i.e. the \"young people the game wants to attract\") to attend the event.
I missed Halloween last year because we were running Testa Rossi and I was trying to make it up to my kids (my youngest is 7) for the next 2 months.
I haven\'t missed attending a Breeders Cup live in 10 years but I will miss the next 2 because of moronic scheduling
There\'s no way I can miss another Halloween this year to go to Santa Anita and then the geniuses schedule it for Halloweeen again in 2015?
I mean, come on fellas, this stuff isn\'t hard.
I don\'t care how old/disconnected/aloof, etc you are, it\'s just not that hard to get this stuff right.
Meanwhile, new NYRA racing secretary is onto alot of great ideas. Fewwer but higher quality races at the spa, no twightlight racing because it takes away from local merchants business, letting other tracks know post times ahead of time so big races aren\'t scheduled on top of one another.
All it takes is a little common sense to fix some of the issues that racing has. There are other issues that are harder to fix but at least let\'s get the easy ones right.
New NYRA racing secretary is doing it, Breeders Cup board isn\'t.
Letters to the editor of DRF and/or TDN, Jim. You\'re a player in this industry at a lot of levels, they\'ll at least hear you.
I am thinking about it JB, it\'s just that there are so many \"complainers\" in this industry already that I feel like I would be just another person adding to the laundry list of complaints and cycle of negativity
that said, when I see progress in the industry on things like drugs, etc, I feel like it\'s worth it to ruffle the occasional feather
I have always tried to take the approach in life that being very positive will be you get one alot farther than complaining but man o man can this industry test one\'s patience
I am probably a lot more down on the industry in general and the BC specifically right now (which I don\'t want to go in to) than you are, but this is something so simple even people who run this game should be able to understand it. You should do it.
TGJB Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> this is something so simple even people who run
> this game should be able to understand it.
I\'ve missed 5 of the last 15 Kentucky Derby days
because someone in my extended family was making
their First Holy Communion.
Not exactly the same, I get that, but now with TV
heavily involved with BC and calling the shots, you
might have better luck asking to have Halloween
moved to October 24th.
Looking at the Breeder\'s Cup Board of Directors photo page, I can see why they are not focused on the calendar and schedule conflict with Halloween. There are 14 Directors. 13 are men. 1 is a woman. No minorities (by the way). Average age maybe 70. 1 young looking fellow (Bret Jones).
Halloween means nothing to them -- if you tell them about the conflict they would say \"huh?\" or something mindless like that.
lol,
I am embarrased to say that we have scheduled the kids First Communions around the Derby
Our church gives us the choice of two dates each year because they have to split the kids
I am first in line each time with the slip to sign up for the weekend between Derby and Preakness
I know that\'s sad but in years when I get lucky on the Derby, I throw a little something extra in the basket to make up for it!!!
based on the response I got on twitter to a post which says the same thing I said here, seems like alot of Dad\'s are feed up with the dates
covelj70 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> because there are enough people that do that
> already but how hard would it be to move the
> Breeders Cup away from Halloween?
>
> The first thing anyone ever laments about in horse
> racing is that \"there aren\'t enough young people
> in the game\"
>
> so what does the brain trust in charge of the
> Breeders Cup do? They schedule the biggest event
> of the year on a day that makes it very difficult
> for parents of young children (i.e. the \"young
> people the game wants to attract\") to attend the
> event.
>
> I missed Halloween last year because we were
> running Testa Rossi and I was trying to make it up
> to my kids (my youngest is 7) for the next 2
> months.
>
> I haven\'t missed attending a Breeders Cup live in
> 10 years but I will miss the next 2 because of
> moronic scheduling
>
> There\'s no way I can miss another Halloween this
> year to go to Santa Anita and then the geniuses
> schedule it for Halloweeen again in 2015?
>
> I mean, come on fellas, this stuff isn\'t hard.
>
> I don\'t care how old/disconnected/aloof, etc you
> are, it\'s just not that hard to get this stuff
> right.
>
> Meanwhile, new NYRA racing secretary is onto alot
> of great ideas. Fewwer but higher quality races
> at the spa, no twightlight racing because it takes
> away from local merchants business, letting other
> tracks know post times ahead of time so big races
> aren\'t scheduled on top of one another.
getting the Suburban back to a mile and a quarter, scheduling more longer races on the big days, coming up with the $1.25 mio Belmont Derby & $1 mio Belmont Oaks - MILE AND A QUARTER TURF RACES!! I like what this guy is doing at NYRA. I just hope others like it as much as we do.
> All it takes is a little common sense to fix some
> of the issues that racing has. There are other
> issues that are harder to fix but at least let\'s
> get the easy ones right.
>
> New NYRA racing secretary is doing it, Breeders
> Cup board isn\'t.
Consider me speechless ...
You decide to complain once in 10 years and THIS is the issue? Halloween?
If you have any luck making an issue of this, I am next. I will grab my Torah and tefillen, storm NYRA\'s offices, and demand to know why the big races on the schedule are always run between sunset on Friday and
sunset on Saturday.
Take the kids to Mardi Gras. It always falls on a Tuesday in Feb or March so it is highly unlikely that it will.interfere with any big races.
DISCLAIMER: I have been lifetime banned from Halloween for \"skimming\" from the UNICEF box they gave us to collect for charity while we were trash or treating.
Richie,
This is so so great on many levels not the least of which is that this proves to me that there is indeed someone else out there with more \"issues\" than me.
I love ya brother!
JC,
The Pope has been on an excommunicating tear lately, it might solve your communion problem in early May.
With Halloween, you need to convert post-excommunication
to a fundamentalist Christian sect that refuses to let their kids enjoy Halloween....How Bad is that.. parents that cant let their kids enjoy a fun day/evening
And, as was mentioned earlier, thank Yahweh for your Christain roots, to never ever,ever to see a Saturday race live instead of tape or to eat a cheeseburger while doing so, I know I do.
regards, bt
GO TOGA!!!!
covelj70 Wrote:
----------------------------------------------
> I have always tried to take the approach in life
> that being very positive will be you get one alot
> farther than complaining but man o man can this
> industry test one\'s patience
Jim, I respect you but if this is what you are teaching your children, let Uncle Richiebee spend a few minutes with the youngsters and tell them about 1972, about me and a quarter of a million other people arriving in Washington DC to \"complain\" to Mr Nixon about the Vietnam war.
Jim,
I totally empathize with your current problem with the date. But in a couple of years \"Trick or Treat\" will be a non entry in your household. I can\'t tell you the number of Breeder\'s Cups I have missed because of parent\'s weekend at college. Get ready for that because you are a good father.
I hear your passion. Most importantly, as a parent. But as far as racing goes, establishing the same weekend every year is a good thing, even if it interferes with kids eating way too much candy.
covelj70 wrote:
\"I missed Halloween last year because we were running Testa Rossi and I was trying to make it up to my kids (my youngest is 7) for the next 2 months.\"
____________________
I\'m proud to say I never had my dad ever \"making up\" for anything during my childhood. He was the boss and complaining and whining never achieved any success with him---just as it doesn\'t in the racing industry.
I\'m curious if others on the board had a dad that \"made up\" for things because I highly doubt it.
IIRC, a few of the early installments of the Breeders\' Cup were held in mid to late November. Seeing how the organizers for the Breeders\' Cup have had a love of going to Santa Anita, why not have it in the last week of December? Crap bowl games and week 17 of the NFL are the only competition.
I\'m going to miss those late posts at the spa, either get out from work and catch a full card at the simulcast from Belmont or if I\'m up there I can sleep in even later.
Jim.
Could not agree with you more, if you think Halloween is an issue , try having your Anniversary fall on that weekend.··It has always been my cross to bear, and somehow I`ve been able to disguise a romantic weekend away to Cali, or on a few occasions Vegas.
If you can organize a movement to get the BC dates changed WHERE CAN I SIGN UP!!!!!!!
Down here in Florida and South Beach in particular Halloween is lasting almost a month now. I really have forgotten what day its is.....
They ran the Breeders Cup one year at old Hollywood Park on about the 2nd or 3rd week in November. It was kind of a disaster. All the 2YO were broke down the following season. Champion Forty Niner didn\'t even ship and run. There was a point where TV called a lot of the shots and Notre Dame football was even on influence!! Tough Call on this one!!
Re: juveniles
As opposed to now? Shanghai Bobby and New Year\'s Day weren\'t exactly monster iron horses after their respective victories in that race. Street Sense was the only one to prosper after a BC Juvy win in the last decade IIRC.
covelj70 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> because there are enough people that do that
> already but how hard would it be to move the
> Breeders Cup away from Halloween?
>
> The first thing anyone ever laments about in horse
> racing is that \"there aren\'t enough young people
> in the game\"
>
> so what does the brain trust in charge of the
> Breeders Cup do? They schedule the biggest event
> of the year on a day that makes it very difficult
> for parents of young children (i.e. the \"young
> people the game wants to attract\") to attend the
> event.
Yes, it\'s terribly awkward for those caught in the crosshairs . . . but given the prevailing traditonal state of the racing calendar and the usual timing of the lead-in races, it\'s the fairest weekend of the year to stage the thing. Thank God there are more midweek Halloweens than Fri/Sat ones . . .
>
> I missed Halloween last year because we were
> running Testa Rossi and I was trying to make it up
> to my kids (my youngest is 7) for the next 2
> months.
>
> I haven\'t missed attending a Breeders Cup live in
> 10 years but I will miss the next 2 because of
> moronic scheduling
>
> There\'s no way I can miss another Halloween this
> year to go to Santa Anita and then the geniuses
> schedule it for Halloweeen again in 2015?
>
> I mean, come on fellas, this stuff isn\'t hard.
>
> I don\'t care how old/disconnected/aloof, etc you
> are, it\'s just not that hard to get this stuff
> right.
>
> Meanwhile, new NYRA racing secretary is onto alot
> of great ideas. Fewwer but higher quality races
> at the spa, no twightlight racing because it takes
> away from local merchants business, letting other
> tracks know post times ahead of time so big races
> aren\'t scheduled on top of one another.
>
> All it takes is a little common sense to fix some
> of the issues that racing has. There are other
> issues that are harder to fix but at least let\'s
> get the easy ones right.
>
> New NYRA racing secretary is doing it, Breeders
> Cup board isn\'t.
None of the Euros came over for that late date either. Or very few really good ones at least.
Nothing simpler than removing an idiot, that puts everyone in danger, and thoroughly \"enhances everyone\'s guest experience\", right?
http://www.gaming.ny.gov/pdf/07.02.14.RFACNYRA.pdf
NYRA top management continues to be generally incompetent.Still out of touch with the regular players in the game. With roughly one year to go before Gov Cuomo decides what to do with NY racing, NYRA still wandering aimlessly.Albany peeps say Cuomo has recently softened on racing.
With no private takers of NY racing on the horizon, it seems NY racing will revert back to some form of franchising by the state with NYRA given some kind of long term deal to run it....same old same old.
New NYRA racing secretary Marty Panza doing a much better job than his predecessor with the condition book,seems to have a good plan.
my memory fades, but I never remember being so horrified as those that attended this Belmont Day.
have they actually gone backwards over the last 40 years?
Not sure things have gone backwards, but they sure haven\'t improved any since I\'ve been going to the big days (25 years). Of course, expectations are higher than they were 30 or 40 years ago. Used to be you were happy if you didn\'t get mugged when you went out in NY, and anything extra was gravy. Not so at today\'s prices.
I was around before that, and like I say, maybe those brain cells are dead, but other than it being crowded, I don\'t recall complaints of unbearable conditions.
I was there this year and while I experienced most of the issues described I considered them annoyances to an otherwise amazing day of racing. That said, I was with a group of guys and our needs are simple - I don\'t think my wife and kids would have the same outlook.
Any takers on moving this in another direction? Namely the great race card on Saturday. For us, this is the fan experience we want. Lets talk racing these are some nice Euros here. Havent handicapped yet, but will try and look for replays from FR, GB, IRE and comment... Happy Independence all, have fun be safe
My take on Stars & Stripes Day, Martin Panza, and NYRA\'s pricing schemes.
http://around2turns.com/2014/07/08/another-spoiled-rotten-new-york-horseplayer-chimes-in/
Magic:
Outstanding commentary.
Will comment on this and the Noonan article which Ollie was kind enough to link later in the day
from the cool cozy confines of my employer.
Excellent article, both in terms of writing and the argument being made - couldn\'t agree more.
Very nice piece, Magic. I\'m of two minds regarding admission, and they\'re probably both wrong. I can begrudgingly accept it at Saratoga, though anything that might represent an impediment to new players should be dismissed. I can\'t say for certain that two more dollars would be a deal breaker, but if attendance is down, with other factors, e.g. weather, being relatively constant, then they might want to revisit this. Saratoga is the gateway drug for the sport, or at least it was for me, and do I rue the day. Part of me opposes the notion of charging admission at all, or for parking. Just add on for seats, clubhouse, etc. Casinos practically pull you off the street to get your gambling dollar in play. Saratoga has the luxury of being a destination, so attendance is not a big concern. That holds true for a few others, as well, but the rest of the tracks should be handing out coupons at the gate for some of the crap they sell, instead of gouging whenever they get the chance.
It is difficult for me to really have a problem with Messrs. Skorton or Kay. They
are political appointees whose main purpose is to guide NYRA through a
transitional period. There is probably no qualified man or woman in the racing
industry who would have accepted a position at NYRA on these terms and given
NYRA\'s record between 2000-2012. I do not think that it would have been
appropriate to appoint anyone from within the \"old\" NYRA regime.
In a situation such as this, it would seem that Skorton and Kay\'s mandate might
be, stated simply, not to embarrass themselves or the man who appointed them.
Skorton becomes director of the Smithsonian about one year from now; I do not
know if he will remain at NYRA after he takes that position. It will be
interesting to see if Kay remains around long enough to see the error of his ways
and to admit his mistake regarding live gate.
There is no miracle that Chris Kay or anyone else, industry experienced or
otherwise, can perform that would alter the attendance reality at Belmont and
Aqueduct: Weekdays 2,000 - 3,000, dipping to near 1,000 souls on bad weather days
in the dead of winter. For the \"Stars and Stripes\" Festival, there was perfect
weather on a holiday weekend, good racing, T-shirts, food trucks, etc, 11,000
folks turned out. When Belmont used to host \"Super Saturdays\" in the Fall, when
those days consisted of major preps for the Breeders Cup and were arguably
amongst the top five racing days on the calendar in terms of overall quality,
NYRA was happy to have between 12,000 and 15,000 come through the gate; on a
weekend day when no event is involved NYRA would be happy with 5,000 to 6,000.
On weekdays at Yankee and Met games it seems as if Yankee Stadium and Citi Field
are more than half empty. Does one see any headlines asking \"Is Baseball Dead?\"
based on these poorly attended games? The truth is that baseball games have
become longer, and the baseball \"experience\" as Chris Kay might call it, has
become more expensive, and attending weekday/night games seems to have fallen out
of fashion. Baseball is not suffering fiscally because other streams of income
(TV, luxury suites, corporate season ticket sales, and merchandising) have become
more significant.
The other source of income for a racetrack is, of course, intertrack wagering.
About a year ago, in a letter published in the Thoroughbred Daily News, it was
posited that offtrack handle is, going forward, more important to cultivate than
on track attendance. The response from racing insiders was to remind the writer
of the letter that racetracks retain more from wagers made on track; in retail
terms the ontrack wager is a more profitable item for racetracks.
The problem with increasing attendance, and thus increasing ontrack wagering, is
that attendance at tracks such as Arlington and Belmont and Fair Grounds and
Churchill and Santa Anita and others has basically been flat or slightly off for
more than a decade; the \"boutique\" meets have fared well, and \"gimmicks\" such as
\"Downs after Dark\" have brought out some large crowds, but the general trend is
that attendance is decreasing.
The bottom line to me is that it is unrealistic to believe that anyone -- New
NYRA, old NYRA, future NYRA or Frank Stronach -- would be able to increase
ontrack attendance significantly, barring of course a return to the day when the
only place one could bet on horses running at Belmont Park was at Belmont Park.
So the goal of realizing increased revenue from the high profit item, ontrack
dollars wagered (which includes NYRA Rewards wagers?)(I do not know what
calculation is involved here, because I am certain many folks wagering at the
track are doing so through their NYRA Reward account) is likely not attainable.
While it is not likely that weekend attendance at Belmont could consistently be
increased by even 20%, it seems within the realm of reason that NYRA could make
adjustments to its racing program which would lead to a significant increase in
terms of dollars wagered at off track facilities:
1) Effect a minimal decrease of takeout rates;
2) Make seasonal adjustments to post times to expose the product to the largest
audience possible;
3) Improve the quality of the racing program by severely curtailing overnight
races restricted to NYBs;
4) Restore the quality of the Winter racing program.
It should be noted that adjustments 1) - 4) would also likely lead to an increase
in on track dollars wagered, though not necessarily on track attendance.
why not try a lower takeout for tickets bought on site.
Makes good sense on the surface Reward patrons rather than gouge and penalize them. Clever.
But can the bureaucrats cope with the technical challenge? I guess a simple membership rebate system would be easy enough.
Not sure it would be any more complicated than a bonus payout for any ticket bought on the grounds.
Would improve attendance and give NYRA a bigger cut of the handle to boot.
I wonder if any of the high priced \'consulting firms\' offered advice like that.