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General Category => Ask the Experts => Topic started by: jbelfior on March 30, 2004, 06:47:31 AM

Title: Illegal Drugs in racing
Post by: jbelfior on March 30, 2004, 06:47:31 AM
Interesting article written by Bill Finley in a recent NY racing newsletter.

Titled \"Silence is Deafening in Drug Warfare,
\" Finley questions why this issue does not \"stir the emotions or evoke the wrath of the thousands of honorable, hard-working people in this industry who play by the rules.\"

Think about it. When a horse wins a race with the benefit of illegal drugs, isn\'t that taking money out of the pockets of honest horsemen?

Then why do these guys choose to remain silent, Finley asks. In answering his own question, Finley says that the problem is \"racing\'s clubby nature.\" Most, if not all, horsemen choose not to make waves. If and when they do, they are looked at as oddballs, sorelosers, and troublemakers. They are warned not to make trouble and never bring up topics that are not \"good for the game.\"

Finley concludes his article by stating that the honest owners and trainers need to take a \"we\'re mad-as-hell\" attitude and vocalize the concerns that they have.

I\'m not so sure you will ever see that.

 
Good Luck,
Joe B.

Title: Re: Illegal Drugs in racing
Post by: Dr. Fager on March 30, 2004, 08:54:30 AM
So tell me.  What happens when one trainer rats on someone else and accuses him of using drugs.  How do you prove it.  Does the NYSRWB raid that trainer\'s barn a la Vladimir Cerin at Santa Anita.  Horses get tested for drugs and routinely show nothing.  Do you have barn surveillance?  A quarantine facility for 24 hrs prior to racing?  Everyone alludes to rampant illegal medication.  Proving it, legally, is something else. There are also libel laws.  Did Finley mention names in his article?  Of course not.  It\'s not so easy.
Title: Re: Illegal Drugs in racing
Post by: jbelfior on March 30, 2004, 12:50:19 PM
Dr. Fager---

No, he mentioned no names. He also admitted he has no proof.

His point was similar to what\'s going on with baseball. Do names have to be mentioned to know who\'s being referred to?

Perhaps barn surveillance is a good start. As far as I\'m concerned, it is the reason SIGHTSEEK does not like the track at Santa Anita.


Good Luck,
Joe B.

Title: Re: Illegal Drugs in racing
Post by: sheba87 on March 30, 2004, 01:12:58 PM
So she is basically unbeatable everywhere else and can\'t win at Santa Anita and it is because they are watching the barn?

How does Frankel win wih 25% of his other starters at SA if they are watching the barn?

Does not seem very logical to me.

By the way, there is another article about drug use in the sport in the Racing Form with basically the same questiosn Finley raises, or it may have been Bloodhorse, I can\'t remember.  The author proposes a 1,000,000 reward to anyone in the industry that turns in a cheater.
Title: Re: Illegal Drugs in racing
Post by: cozzene on March 30, 2004, 01:24:53 PM

Maybe, there are no honest owners and trainers.

Thanks

Cozzene
Title: Re: Illegal Drugs in racing
Post by: P.Eckhart on March 30, 2004, 01:37:00 PM
... or racing authorities. I\'m still waiting to hear from the JRA why they let Drysdale run Sarafan in the Japan Cup on steroids.

Title: Re: Illegal Drugs in racing
Post by: jbelfior on March 31, 2004, 08:54:16 AM
Sheba87---

They\'ve been watching Frankel at Santa Anita for 3 years. Several years ago he refused to run a horse for a entire month unless they backed off.

It may have more to do with vet watching. I\'m sure Frankel has a different one when he travels East. Don\'t you ever ask yourself the question as to why SIGHTSEEK, MIDAS EYES, and PEACE RULES run so much better everywhere else??


Good Luck,
Joe B.

Title: Re: Illegal Drugs in racing
Post by: asfufh on March 31, 2004, 04:01:25 PM
JBelfior, Tell me ...why do you continue betting if you think that the use of illegal drug is so rampant?
Don\'t tell me you take drugs into account when handicapping a race because if a trainer is crooked enough to use illegal drugs to win a race then s/he is crooked enough to use drugs to lose a race. Do you only bet on non-druggie races? If so, as far as I can tell, you think about 10 to 20 major trainers (plus untold numbers of minor trainers) are illegal drug users so your opportunities to bet would be severly limited.
I am very interested to hear your rationale to bet under these circumstances. asfufh


















i
Title: Dutrow jr
Post by: bdhsheets on March 31, 2004, 04:19:39 PM
Richie Dutrow jr suspended 45 days, $3k fine

http://news.bloodhorse.com/viewstory.asp?id=21587


Didn\'t know what mepivicaine was [via google search]:

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Carbocaine has been available since the 1960s.

Title: Re: Illegal Drugs in racing
Post by: Chuckles_the_Clown2 on April 01, 2004, 09:00:56 AM
Illegal drugs have pushed me into a position of betting almost exclusively on high quality stakes. I still look for the good horse in cheaper races, but theres so much jump up now and at times its very hard to know whether Dutrow or Lake or a host of others are going to juice their horse for the race under consideration.

Stakes racing involves high class animals that many times don\'t need the juice to perform well. Theres fewer surprises.

I\'ve never liked cheating of any kind, but it exists in every aspect of life and has always existed in horseracing. You just have to try to adapt and recognize who the cheats are and when they are likely to cheat. Its not always.

CtC



Post Edited (04-01-04 12:04)
Title: Re: Illegal Drugs in racing
Post by: jbelfior on April 02, 2004, 07:56:06 AM
Asfufh--

You\'re right. The amount of races I can bet on has shrunk dramatically. As does CtC, I limit my plays to high caliber stakes races.

You\'ll never see me bet on any races that Dutrow, Frankel, Lake, Doug O\'Neill, Shuman, or Jeff Mullins are in. The game is tough enough without adding \"guessing\" to the list of variables.

I\'ll attack races like The Derby, the Saratoga meet, and the Breeder\'s Cup. By the way, if you have the time, check out the winning percentages of the guys that I have listed above in these races. If Dutrow, Lake, Shuman, etc. were only allowed to run their horse in Saratoga, they would all be eating peanut butter and jelly for dinner every night.


Good Luck,
Joe B.

Title: Re: Illegal Drugs in racing
Post by: derby1592 on April 02, 2004, 08:56:57 AM
I think you can factor the drug stuff into your handicapping as just another variable that everyone else has to deal with as well. In fact, sheets probably give you an edge in spotting the \"super trainers\" and quantifying the affect on their horses to some degree. I think most of the guys using drugs do it pretty consistently to get an edge on their competition rather than to cash a bet.

The real losers are the non-cheating owners and trainers (and, of course, the horses) and I think they are the ones that Finley is referring to. Just look at all the top trainers/owners from 5-10 years ago that are just also-rans for the most part today. Did these guys suddenly forget how to breed and train horses or did their competition suddenly find a \"short cut\" to success? Finley is asking the obvious question that I have raised in the past on this board, \"Why aren\'t these guys raising hell?\" Charlie Whittingham and Woody Stephens stayed near the top of the game until their deaths. I have a feeling both of them would struggle to win any races at all if they were training today.

By the way, I think drugs are just as common in graded stakes as any other races, they are just more expensive drugs.

It will be interesting to see what happens when/if they finally institute the new drug testing policy for graded stakes.

Chris
Title: Re: Illegal Drugs in racing
Post by: jbelfior on April 02, 2004, 02:05:28 PM
Chris--

Do you feel that the \'super trainers\' are more cautious in the Gr I events, especially the Triple Crown, Breeders\' Cup, etc.??


Good Luck,
joe B.

Title: Re: Illegal Drugs in racing
Post by: derby1592 on April 02, 2004, 08:56:06 PM
joe B.

I think the Breeder\'s Cup has made a point of trying to keep close tabs on the barn area ever since the flap between Bond/Dickinson in Florida a few years back and it seems to have had an impact.

For the TC and other G1\'s I have not seen anything similar but others may have a different opinon.

That all could change this summer but we will have to wait and see.

Chris