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General Category => Ask the Experts => Topic started by: Silver Charm on November 13, 2013, 11:45:12 AM

Title: Stud or Duds
Post by: Silver Charm on November 13, 2013, 11:45:12 AM
So this year we have seen 3 Pletcher trained 3YO\'s retired to Stud.

Violence - didnt win at 3 becasue of injury but has a nice TV commercial
Shanghai Bobby - won an Allowance race.....in October. That is it.
Verazanno - has some resume with the Wood and the Haskel

If any of these 3 went to Florida and stood for about $5,000 they might be interesting.

And now we have Orb. Who did get good and won the Fountain of Youth, Florida Derby and Kentucky Derby but tailed off and leaves with questions.

Is there really that big of a market out there for these types? None ever tried grass. Some won only won sprinting. None of them successfully beat older horses. We really dont know who or what they beat. I might be much more interested on say a Point of Entry who has that El Prado line that has been so successful. But what do I know.....
Title: Re: Stud or Duds
Post by: Halo Fire on November 13, 2013, 04:34:14 PM
Oxbow has big time sire written all over him.
Title: Re: Stud or Duds
Post by: Silver Charm on November 13, 2013, 05:38:41 PM
Agreed....similar to Hansen!
Title: Re: Stud or Duds
Post by: Tavasco on November 13, 2013, 11:10:48 PM
I read in The Bloodhorse, Hansen is standing in South Korea? fee yet to be determined.

Have any of Pletcher\'s become quality sires?
Title: Re: Stud or Duds
Post by: Blueskies on November 14, 2013, 05:40:41 AM
What about cape blanco? Some nice weanlings this year- but overbred? Pretty fast turf horse able to get 12f. Any thoughts on him as a sire.
Title: Re: Stud or Duds
Post by: Silver Charm on November 14, 2013, 07:53:03 AM
Yah I dont know and my comment was obviously tongue in cheek.

Those five current year 3YO\'s will all be bred to about 50 mares apiece and I am not sure that any of them ever did that much over a long body of work. What would be the expectations for them as Stallions considering some were unsound, potential bleeders, light resume\'s and in the case of Oxbow very small?

I am pretty sure I was told last January that Coolmore bought 50% interest in Shanghai Bobby for $4M. Seriously can they get out on a Deal like this? Pletcher broke his maiden going 4.5 at Aqueduct in April which tells me he didnt think he was gonna be much. Put that on his TV Commercial.....
Title: Re: Stud or Duds
Post by: BH on November 14, 2013, 02:33:03 PM
English Channel, Speightstown, Harlans\' Holiday(after McPeek),More Than Ready, Scat Daddy.
Title: Re: Stud or Duds
Post by: BH on November 14, 2013, 02:38:39 PM
Claiborne usually limits books to about 100. The two going to Coolmore will get LARGE books, count on it. They are famous for it.

Hansen for instance? 147. Cape Blanco, over 200 his first year.

Hill and Dale(Violence) also has loyal clients that will back the horse.

See the number of mares bred in \'13 by each stallion here:

http://www.jockeyclub.com/information.asp?reportrequest=RMB&letter=H

and the number in the past several years here:

http://www.jockeyclub.com/information.asp?reportrequest=LF
Title: Re: Stud or Duds
Post by: richiebee on November 15, 2013, 03:05:15 AM
... not to mention The Green Monkey, who sold at auction for $16,000,000, and I
think stands stud in Florida for 5K. A few of his offspring have \"outrun their
pedigree\", meaning they have managed to win races.
Title: Re: Stud or Duds
Post by: kekomi on November 16, 2013, 01:59:28 PM
you can\'t judge a sire by his race record--this is the 3 yo old record of the best n. american sire:

6th fl derby
1st wood memorial
9th ky derby
9th pa derby
retired

he won both starts as a 2 yo--msw and laurel futurity

2014 stud fee--$150,000 dollars

never beat older, never raced on grass, never raced on synthetic--his offspring have won stakes all around the world on all 3 surfaces--in both tightly controlled and more permissive doping jurisdictions...










tapit
Title: Re: Stud or Duds
Post by: kekomi on November 16, 2013, 03:10:43 PM
you mock, but hansen was a much better race horse than his papa. and his papa\'s stud fee is $150,000 a pop.